Jack Kirby Collector #31 by TwoMorrows Publishing

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR

It’s the KIRBY Bit! But Like

84 BIG pages

You’ve Never Seen It Before!!!

DON’T TAKE LESS! O N LY

995

THE NEW NO. 31 MAR.

2001

Look High! Look Low! Then Brace Yourself For

The

Number 1, March 2001

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A MESSAGE FROM THIS ISSUE’S COVER INKER “Okay, I am a comic book guy, through and through and I always will be. But I have a deep, dark, not-sosecret secret. I am also a geek… of the first order, a pitiful geek, and I study… (gulp) theoretical physics… and on one of my websites nealadamsentertainment.com I posted a 3 min. 15 sec. taste of the project geek Neal has worked on for nearly 30 years. Call it the opening gun… of an incredible voyage… join me.”

™

Hype and hullaballo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom

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Edited by Jon B. Cooke

And Baby Makes… ThreeMorrows! This issue of The Jack Kirby Collector isn’t the only thing that’s late! It seems that one of the TwoMorrows who bring you this periodical is pregnant! (We’ll leave it up to you to guess which one.) As of this writing, PAM MORROW’s twelve weeks along, and has been plagued by an awful case of morning sickness. This left publisher (and husband) JOHN MORROW trying his best to care for her, and juggle the workload at their ad agency, so the deadline on this first tabloid-size issue of TJKC just had to give. The happy couple’s lips are sealed on whether or not they’ll change their company name to ThreeMorrows Publishing, but both are looking forward to the impending arrival in September! We’ve also got a few other new members of the TwoMorrows family to welcome into the fold! First is ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON, our full-time production assistant at the Raleigh, North Carolina headquarters. Eric’s responsible for only about a kazillion jobs here, from order filling, scanning, and proofreading, to all-around helping John and Pam keep the TwoMorrows mags coming out on a regular schedule. Also, we’d like to welcome CHRIS DAY, our new graphic designer on Alter Ego (freeing up the previous designer—and Comic Book Artist editor—JON B. COOKE to concentrate on some top secret new projects coming soon!). And lastly (but definitely never leastly), there’s MIKE MANLEY, editor of Draw!, our new “how-to” mag for comics artists, cartoonists, and animators. Mike’s a long-time comics pro with beau-coup industry connections, as you’ll see from his first issue line-up. Welcome to all these fine gents! (Now get back to work, allayeez!)

ABBREVIATIONS TO REMEMBER:

A/E: THE CBA COLLECTION E.T.A. A.S.A.P., O.K.? There’s a plethora of pencils from KIRBY’s 1970s Invaders covers in our new trade paperback, Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection. In addition to reprinting the Alter Ego sections from CBA #1-5, several of the book’s 30 NEW PAGES are taken up with previously unseen art from Roy Thomas’s 1970s “retro” comic, and Jack’s covers are well represented. Plus there’s an awesome, new gallery of JOE KUBERT artwork covering his work from the 1940s to the ’70s, and a previously-unpublished 1999 interview of the late, great GIL KANE, conducted by ROY THOMAS—Ye Editor himself! All of this—and more!—behind a spiffy JOE KUBERT cover (see our repro’ at left). It’s shipping within a week or two of when you read this, so order your copy today!

Warren Companion to kick a**!

THE

Why, you’d think TwoMorrows was a dating service with all of the Companions we’re producing, but—man!—are we psyched about this book! This 288-page tome—due in early Summer—is the definitive (and authorized) compendium to the great horror comics of Warren Publishing! Including an exhaustive checklist (with artist and writer cross-references), the book also features a complete redesign of the sold-out Comic Book Artist #4 (winner of last year’s Eisner award!) plus nearly 200 pages of new interviews, articles, a rarelyseen story by AL WILLIAMSON & ARCHIE GOODWIN, and much more, behind a new cover by Italian pal ALEX HORLEY! Look for it!

S&K SEARCH!

TwoMorrows is still in search of good photocopies of art from Stuntman, Boy Explorers, and Captain 3-D for our upcoming book The Best of Simon & Kirby (particularly pages from the never-published Stuntman stories “Jungle Lord”, “Terror Island” featuring the evil Panda, and “The Evil Sons of M. LeBlanc”). We’ll gladly reimburse you for copying/shipping expenses, and send you a free copy of the book when it’s published! Requests for anonymity will be respected, so get in touch with us today!

When Size Does Matter… Are you thrilled by the stupendous size of this issue of TJKC, but wondering where you’ll ever find plastic bags to store it in? Hmm? Is that what’s bothering you, bunky? Have no fear! Just call BAGS UNLIMITED (800-767-BAGS, or on the web at www.bagsunlimited.com) and order their Life Magazine-size “Large” bags (available in 2mil and 3mil thicknesses). They’ll fit this ish like a glove, and for less than $10 (cheap!) you’ll have enough bags to last you through TJKC #80, scheduled to ship Summer 2013!

Creatures Beware!

COMPANION

MR. MONSTER is back in June in Mr. Monster: His Books of Forbidden Knowledge, Vol. If you’re viewing a digital version Zero! Gathered within this of this publication, PLEASE read TwoMorrows trade paperback this plea from the publisher! are twelve twisted tales of Doc Stearn’s Forbidden Knowledge! his is COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL, which is NOTThis INTENDED FOR FREE non-ancient tome collects all DOWNLOADING ANYWHERE. If you’re a print subscriber, or you paid the the hard-to-find the modest fee we charge to download it at our website, you have our sincere Mr. Monster thanks—your support allows us to keep producing publications like this one.Crack-A-Boom! stories from A-1, If EVOLUTION instead you downloaded it for free from some other or torrent, COPYRIGHT NOTICES: and website Dark Horse Presents in IS INEVITABLE The Fantastic Four ©2001 Marvel please know that it was absolutely 100% DONE WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, mysterious black-&-white. But JUL YPOSTING 200 1COPYRIGHTED an ILLEGAL OF OUR MATERIAL. If Characters, Inc. Mr. Monster ©2001and it was that’s not all! Volume Zero also Michael T. Gilbert. Uncle Creepy, that’s the case, here’s what you should do: Cousin Eerie ©2001 Warren 30 pages of ALL1) Go ahead and READ THIS DIGITAL ISSUE, andincludes see what over you think. Publishing. Stuntman ©2001 Simon 2) If you enjoy it enough to keep it, DO THE RIGHTNEW THING andMonster purchase art a and stories! Mr. & Kirby. Captain Marvel, Bulletman, legal download of it from our website, or purchase the print edition at our Bulletgirl, Mary Marvel, Capt. Marvel Friend, can your sanity survive website (which entitles you to the Digital Edition for free) or at your local Jr., Spy Smasher, Isis, Ibis, All-Star our Lee/Kirby comic book shop. We’d love to have you as a™regular paid reader. monster spoof, Squadron and related characters 3) Otherwise, DELETE IT FROM YOUR COMPUTER and DO NOT SHARE “Ooooak… The Tree That Walks ©2001 DC Comics. IT WITH FRIENDS OR POST IT ANYWHERE. Like A Man” by MICHAEL T. ILLEGALLY, 4) Finally, DON’T KEEP DOWNLOADING OUR MATERIAL for free. We offer one complete issue of all our magazines for free downloadGILBERT & MARK MARTIN? Or ing at our website, which should be sufficient for you to decide you want to how aboutif the long-lost 1933 purchase others. If you enjoy our publications enough to keep downloading Mr. Monster newspaper strip? them, support our company by paying for the material we produce. Coming this Summer is another Talk about Forbidden Knowledge! TwoMorrows paperback, The We’re not trade some giant corporation with deep pockets, and can absorb these There’s even an eight-page losses. We’re a small company—literally a “mom shop—with dozens Fawcett Companion, presenting the Best and pop” of hard-working freelance creators, slaving away day and night and on weekFULL-COLOR INSERT, featuring ofends, FCAto(Fawcett Collectors of America), make a pretty minimal amount of income for all this work. We love a terrifying Trencher/Mr. what we do, butfanzine our editors, authors,toand the long-lived devoted theyour local comic shop owner, rely on slug-fest, drawn by incomewriters, from thisand publication staythe in business. don’t rob us of the small artists, editorsto of Marvel PleaseMonster amount of compensation we receive. Doing so will ensure thereGIFFEN won’t beand any MICHAEL T. KEITH Family, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, and co. future products like this to download. GILBERT! Can you stand the Fans have been raving about editor Paul horror as titans at (and art-styles!) TwoMorrows publications should only be downloaded Hamerlinck’s new FCA sections in Alter clash!? Look for this 136-page www.twomorrows.com Ego, and this volume delivers more great, Trade Paperback in the COMICS classic work by the likes of C.C. BECK, section of April’s Previews or MARC SWAYZE, KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, and more, including order directly from TwoMorrows interviews and historical articles galore, and a new, knockout JERRY for $20 postpaid—if you dare! ORDWAY COVER (above)! Look for ordering details next issue!

PRIME8

The Fawcett Companion

Contents OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 (editor John Morrow gives his Top Ten List of Big Kirby Ideas)

NO. 31 MAR.

THE NEW

2001

UNDER THE COVERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 (the scoop on this issue’s cover, and an excellent story about Neal Adams and our man Kirby) JACK F.A.Q.s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8 (Mark Evanier’s new column, answering your Frequently Asked Questions)

VIEW FROM THE WHIZ WAGON . . . . . .14 (our new travelogue journeys to Orlando, FL to find out how Universal Kirby is) INTERVIEW: KURT BUSIEK . . . . . . . . .16 (the famed Astro City creator gets us to the bottom of what happened at Topps Comics) MIKE GARTLAND . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24 (our controversial columnist shows how, when it comes to Giant-Man, the bigger they are, the harder they fall) ANALYSIS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .29 (some fresh perspectives on why the Fourth World failed) RETROSPECTIVE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .33 (revisiting the FF Annual tradition) TWOMORROWS YEARBOOK . . . . . . . .37 (showing how we get by with a little help from our friends, plus this issue’s contributors and classified ads) GALLERY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38 (some of Kirby’s best 2-page spreads) KIRBY AS A GENRE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .46 (Adam McGovern looks at more Kirbyinfluenced work, from Rick Veitch to Erik Larsen and more) INTERNATIONALITIES . . . . . . . . . . . . .48 (our ongoing look at the King’s international influence finds a kindred spirit in Ladronn) COMPARISON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .53 (how does Jack’s 2001 adaptation stack up to the film version?) OLD GENESIS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .58 (examining the “big”-ness of Kirby’s gods, and connecting the mythological dots) TRIBUTE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .60 (Mark Evanier hosts Gene Colan, Marie Severin, Roy Thomas, and Tracy and Jeremy Kirby at the 2000 Kirby Tribute Panel in San Diego) CREDIT CHECK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .71 (shouldn’t Kirby have gotten a byline on the X-Men film?) FLASHBACK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .72 (25 years ago, Kirby went looking for America and found it) COLLECTOR COMMENTS . . . . . . . . . . .78 PARTING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 Cover inks: NEAL ADAMS Cover color: TOM ZIUKO (This issue’s cover was inspired by Jimmy Olsen #138: The Big Boom!) Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support. COPYRIGHTS: Dubbilex, Forever People, Goody Rickels, Guardian, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Mr. Miracle, New Gods, Newsboy Legion, Orion, Superman, Whiz Wagon, Young Scott Free TM & © DC Comics • 2001 Images, Annihilus, Ant-Man, Avengers, Balder, Black Panther, Bucky, Cable, Captain America, Celestials, Daredevil, Dr. Doom, Dracula, Eternals, Fantastic Four, Galactus, Giant-Man, Hercules, Hulk, Human Top, Hurricane, Inhumans, Invaders, Iron Man, Karnilla, Machine Man/Mr. Machine, Magneto, Mangog, Marvel Boy, Modok, Odin, Recorder, Sif, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Sserpo, Thor, Ulik, Wasp, Watcher, Where Monsters Dwell art, X-Men TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Bombast, Capt. Glory, Captain Victory, Collage art, Night Glider, Satan's Six, Silver Star, TeenAgents TM & © Jack Kirby Estate

These Fantastic Four #49 pencils (Apr. ’66) were first presented in TJKC #22, but what better image to start off our first “big” issue? The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 9, No. 31, March 2001. Published quarterly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-8338092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Eric Nolen-Weathington, Production Assistant. Single issues: $13 postpaid ($15 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $36.00 US, $60.00 Canada, $64.00 elsewhere. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. First printing. PRINTED IN CANADA.

Under The Covers At first, this issue’s cover inker Neal Adams would seem to be the total antithesis of Kirby, with his realistic style vs. Kirby’s cartooniness; but the two combined for a handful of memorable Jimmy Olsen covers in the 1970s, particularly #138 (shown at far right), the inspiration for this issue’s cover. For our first “big” issue, we asked Neal to ink the Kirby Superman pencil shown here (supplied by Sam De La Rosa), and combined it with a Kirby collage from Jimmy Olsen #134 (scanned from Jack’s original, color collage) and the one from the Marvelmania Portfolio (also scanned from the color original). Neal not only agreed to do the inks, but included a bit of prose about the process, and to notify readers that his re-pencils (see next page) and inks are for sale. Our thanks to Neal and all the fine folks up at Continuity Studios for working this into their busy schedules.

ver. e a co n th . . . g nd i n a i K e the hang d To c stroy. r an unto . r k e n alte Kirby d i de n e o o o r t t t To ed ind not ance my m f outrag m my own k or .. perch n n i i o o . To ging. r.. arrows sity fr oble chan is n ngs and of adverne. or t ‘ it f i er a li ave as never e Whether the s ace a se ne for l l ibt w ast, suff or to f ender li he p e... tha l pay trbe t r s n n i d l fa ls an in must we a have or l loya as I r line f be that tribute , n my ust .. nde I ca Yet rs to re so it m irby and each.t f o K n e u m oth ay. Eve ing... t, b alga n am the wors a my w to the K e b not ke must ute ge. e ma ying rious... c h r a t o m f o o h er the et glo empl st p y fore I mu te shaft oduced . Therew thing, both. g thin y pr . aphi A ne best of d of ith a gr s thereb d papyri o h t e i n w m of a the e t e g th f i An ima raphite uree o p o t n a o s in but So a producti light. ing in g againwater... ace... g n a re a box of s the th i f h I sur s to he t ing h affixe ce t mperviou selfsame study as . u d o c r n y ep uid, i whi that eatio I ma st r I mu ebon liq , not on so that , and cr igiw o N ty ay re... n or Each s l n a ’ a a e y f i f o Ind .. I sa as pu .. of made l ia... not. another, my path. ve I k of Ind . We wil a h i . n t n . t i ra e in bu ress o do. sale lust o il hite, on able for t we can prog w t leas grap vail so... And One in ach... a is the nal. ing... e fers. It All, a th rtain of and e e t n n O e ns tatio Salu

be) (Scri m s m a o d c A s. Neal nealadam . w w w

t’s December 1975, and my friend Dave came over all excited and told me he read about an upcoming comic convention in Miami, where we live, that would have Neal Adams for a guest. (Adams was our favorite artist. Wasn’t he everyone’s favorite artist back then?) “Great,” I said, “let’s plan to go to it. When is it?” “It starts tomorrow,” he tells me. Somehow we decided to call Adams at the hotel—to say what, I had no idea. We’re young and stupid, we didn’t need any ideas. So I called the hotel the convention was at, and in the deepest voice I could speak, I asked if Mr. Adams had checked in yet. “Yes, he has,” I was told. “Can I have his room number, please?” I asked. “I’m sorry, sir” (possibly the first time I’d ever been called sir), “we can’t give out that information.” “Well,” I lied, “I have a very important message to deliver to him.” “I’ll connect you to his room,” replied the hotel clerk— but there’s no answer to his phone, and I dejectedly hung up. Then Dave said, “Why don’t we go to the hotel and find him?” “You’re crazy,” I constructively responded. But somehow, we ended up deciding that if we’re slick enough, we’ll figure a way to find him—for what, we didn’t quite know yet. And then I suggested, “Let’s get him a cake.”

My friend and I got a cake made that said “To the World’s Greatest Artist” on it at a bakery near my house, and headed to the hotel. We went to the front desk and I confidently announced, “I’ve got the cake for Neal Adams here, which room should I deliver it to?” Well, unknown to me, Mr. Adams had evidently just stopped by the desk for his messages and the clerk heard him mention he was on his way to eat in the hotel restaurant. So the desk clerk assumed that he knew about the cake coming, and directed us to the restaurant! Trying to keep our cool, Dave and I nonchalantly walked to where the clerk pointed, and tried not to give anything away. Figuring if it worked once, it would work again, we walked up to the woman at the door of the restaurant, and told her we had the cake for Mr. Adams, and asked where he was seated. Before she could say, “Who? Go away, little boys” (which is probably what she would’ve said, if we had given her the chance), Dave said, “I see him,” and started to walk inside. Of course he hadn’t—not yet—but his quick thinking got us inside before anyone could stop us. Then, we saw him, and we were speechless—

My Excellent Jack Kirby Story by Bill Field literally. Neither Dave nor I could do or say anything. I mean, it’s Neal Adams! The Neal Adams! Our hero, Neal Adams! But wait… he’s not alone. He’s sitting with James Doohan and Jack Kirby! Oh, and several wives were also present. Jack Kirby, God bless him, finally said, “Yes, boys, can we help you?” just as friendly as can be, while Adams and Doohan were doing their best to pretend we’re not there. I managed to stammer out, “We’ve brought a cake for Mr. Adams,” as I held it up for them to read. Don’t forget

now, it addressed Adams as the best artist, and again, God bless him, Jack grabbed the ball, and said, “How nice. Tell you what, kids. Let us eat our dinner in peace, and we’ll eat that cake together for dessert. Can you wait outside for us?” Can we? Does a bear… well, you know the rest. So Dave and I found a place to sit right outside the restaurant entrance (since we didn’t want to miss them coming out), and simultaneously sat down and floated in the air. For the next 45 minutes, the 5

Mark evanier

Jack F.A.Q.s

A new column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby by Mark Evanier

(below) A representative page from Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961). Who is the mystery inker?

ack Kirby was the most amazing creative talent I have ever known and, easily, the most fascinating individual. As many of you know, I am currently assembling a biography of the man. It started shortly after he passed away and his widow asked me to undertake such a book... but it really started about two minutes after I first met Jack in 1969. He kept feeding me information and telling me stories he wanted to have preserved and disseminated for posterity. Jack was an extremely honest man and it mattered to him to have his life and achievements honestly accounted. The book is progressing nicely and, no, I have no idea when

you’ll be able to read it, though I’m sure it’s at least another year or two off. I keep happening on new information—things that I feel need to be included. So it’ll be done when it’s done— —and it’ll be huge. Matter of fact, it’s getting so long that I’m seriously thinking of having it published in two editions: A limited-printing “full” version including all the trivia and trifling data, and a shorter, “mainstream” version. The latter would be for those folks who need or want to hear The Story of Kirby without rummaging past eight pages on Marvel distribution arrangements and how they impacted what Jack drew for the company. Anyway, I ask your patience. I am not out to make money on this venture... only to see it done right. And doing it right takes time. To satiate the thirst for Kirby info in the interim, we inaugurate this column in the Morrows’ splendid publication. In it, I’ll try to tackle some of the questions I’m most often asked about Jack and his work. Queries are cordially welcomed. It has long been a Big Mystery of comic book history as to who inked Fantastic Four #1. Over the years, various sources have named—wrongly, I’m pretty certain—Bill Everett, Dick Ayers, Art Simek, Marvin Stein, Sol Brodsky, and Jack himself. The Simek identification was especially errant and its source, I’m afraid, was Jack himself. Someone at Marvel, compiling a book where that information was needed, phoned up both Stan Lee and Jack in the hope of settling matters. Stan did not remember. Jack, for some reason, said it was Art Simek. He was almost certainly wrong. Artie Simek was one of the best letterers in the business and he lettered #1, but there is no verified record of him ever doing anything in comics besides lettering. (His daughter reportedly recalls him inking something at some time, but I’m assuming it was a humor page filler or something on that order.) And whoever inked FF #1 also inked #2—which was not lettered by Simek—as well as a few concurrent non-series stories in Marvel’s anthology comics, and then stopped working altogether for Stan. It is doubtful that, even back in 1961, Jack knew who inked the first Fantastic Four, as he paid very little attention to that kind of thing. Matter of fact, one of the areas of occasional—but respectful—argument I had with Jack when I first met and worked with him was over his general indifference as to who inked his penciling. One time—this is early 1970—I mentioned to him that I thought Bill Everett had done a magnificent job inking Thor. Jack looked at me like I was nuts. Bill Everett inking Thor? He was sure I was mistaken. In one corner of his studio, he had a pile of old

I cringed at what certain inkers did to Jack’s work... especially after I began to work with him and became more familiar with what was in his raw, penciled art. There were several aspects to his position, one being—as mentioned— that Jack often did not look at the printed books, much or at all. Also, Jack was utterly and totally devoted to providing for his family. It was mandatory that he earn that weekly paycheck and in some ways, he was driven in a way that went beyond obvious financial necessity. He therefore hated the notion of doing anything that might impair someone else’s income. Even if Jack had perceived that his pencils were being harmed by an inker, he was reticent to say anything for fear he might cause someone to lose needed work. Only once in the Sixties at Marvel, to my knowledge, did he complain about the way his pages were being inked. Even then, he did not barge in and insist that So-and-so (it was not Colletta) never be allowed near his pages. Other pencilers were known to make similar demands, and Jack would almost certainly have been accommodated, had he done this—but in the one case, all he did was ask that someone tell the guy to try a little harder and to use bolder lines. So that was one reason Jack never complained about inkers. Another was that he

(left) A Bill Everettinked page from Thor #172 (Jan. 1970). Stylistically, it’s a far cry from Colletta’s inks of the time, such as the splash from Thor #166 (July 1969, shown below).

Marvels. I rummaged around in it, found a Thor that Everett had inked, and thrust it before Kirby. He was amazed. Unless there was a need to do so for research, Jack often did not look at his printed comics— especially in the late Sixties, when he so often felt that Stan Lee’s dialogue was in conflict with what he (Kirby) had plotted. If Jack had even looked at the Everett-inked Thors, the credit had not registered with him. He was also puzzled that Bill Everett, whom he loved and admired, would be inking someone else. To him, Everett was a creator... someone who should be originating his own work instead of helping bring someone else’s to fruition. (The same sentiment was occasionally expressed about Wally Wood, Steve Ditko and a few others who’d inked Kirby pencils.) Jack agreed with me that Everett had done a superb job. He did not, however, concur that it was a tragedy of vast proportions that Bill had been removed from the assignment— against his will, Everett later told me—and that Vince Colletta had been reinstated. Jack simply did not think it mattered that much. He said to me, “No professional inker ever ruined a comic that was well drawn.” 9

Interview

((below) A Keith Giffen page of Kirby’s Ninth Men, from the unpublished second issue of Topps Comics’ Victory mini-series.

Kurt Busiek: Getting to (Kurt Busiek needs little introduction to readers of today’s comics. He made his first major splash on the scene as writer of Marvels, taking a more realistic view of many of the Lee/Kirby characters and events of the 1960s. He’s gone on to handle a slew of other Kirby-related characters, including work on the Topps “Secret City Saga” characters in the 1990s, of which we were privileged to examine some of his preliminary materials for the series. Kurt is continually winning industry awards for, among other things, work on his creatorowned series Astro City. This interview was conducted by e-mail, with questions devised by Eric NolenWeathington and John Morrow. Our thanks to Kurt for taking time out of his busy schedule!) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first become aware of Jack Kirby’s work? Did his work stand out for you at the time? KURT BUSIEK: I probably read Kirby stuff early on, back when I was reading comics occasionally, running across them at friends’ houses and such. The first time I became aware of his work, though, I wasn’t even aware of his name yet. I’d recently started reading comics regularly, and had issues of both Fantastic Four and Marvel’s Greatest Comics. I didn’t realize that Marvel’s Greatest Comics was a reprint magazine. In my confused youthful mind, I was trying to figure out how the people at Marvel knew to put the really great FF stories into Marvel’s Greatest Comics, and the just-okay ones into Fantastic Four. What did they do, I wondered, if the story being done for Fantastic Four came in and was one of their greatest? Did they switch it into the other book? So even then, I knew the Kirby stories were better. I just didn’t know why. TJKC: Were you influenced by his writing style at all, as far as plotting and dialoguing go? KURT: As far as dialoguing, not so much—though I get a kick out of Kirby dialogue. As far as plotting goes, though, I’m probably enormously influenced, even if it’s just subconsciously. When I’m having trouble pacing out a story visually, one of my tricks is to ask myself, “Okay, if this was a Kirby story, how would it play out on the page?” That usually solves whatever problem I’m having. TJKC: In my opinion, your greatest talent lies in characterization—getting to the heart of what makes your characters tick. How do you feel about Kirby’s characterization? Do you consider it a strong suit or a weak one in his work? KURT: I think Kirby’s characterization is the bedrock his work rests on, and one of the strongest aspects of his work. His characters are bursting with personality, projecting whatever essential emotion or attitude is right for their personality and that story moment through their body language, their facial expressions, their visual design, and more. The one piece of advice Kirby ever gave me was that a comics creator could do anything, no matter how strange, cosmic or bizarre, and if the characters just reacted to it like they should, like real people, then the audience would believe in it. I think that’s how he worked in everything, never forgetting who the characters were, and what their essential human (or at least emotional, in the case of the non-humans) center was. TJKC: How did you break into comics? KURT: I had been writing fan letters for years, and writing for the fan press—plus, Scott McCloud and I had been doing comics for ourselves, practicing and learning by working with each other, since high school. I interviewed Dick Giordano, then the

o the Bottom of Topps Comics editor-in-chief at DC, for a college term paper on publishing, and after the interview was completed I told him I was hoping to become a comics writer when I graduated school. He invited me to submit some script samples, so I did. I wrote four sample scripts—a Flash, a Supergirl, a “Superman: The In-Between Years” backup and a Brave and the Bold teaming Batman and Green Lantern—and sent them in. Dick parceled them out to the editors of those books, and as a result I got a tryout on a Superboy script (that didn’t go anywhere) from Julie Schwartz, and an invitation to pitch “Tales of the Green Lantern Corps” backup ideas to Ernie Colón. Ernie liked a couple of the GLC pitches, so he hired me to write one of them, and that was my first bigtime sale, in Green Lantern #162. While I was working on another GLC script for Ernie, I noticed that over at Marvel, they’d kept announcing that Bob Layton was going to be the new writer of Power Man & Iron Fist, but month after month, the book featured fill-in scripts written by Denny O’Neil, the book’s editor. So I figured Denny might be open to some deadline help, and sent him a story submission for a one-issue Power Man & Iron Fist story along with a note saying that I was already writing professionally for DC. Denny bought it, so I pitched another, and as things worked out, Bob Layton never took over the book, and I wrote it for about a year. TJKC: Marvels was what really put your name on the map. The story was told with a man-on-the-street realism that hadn’t really been used at Marvel before. What was your thinking when taking grandiose, larger-than-life stories, particularly Kirby and Lee’s introduction of Galactus, and showing them through the eyes of mere mortals? Did Alex Ross’ work make it easier to convey? Would you have been able to tell the same story with Kirby art? KURT: Showing the Marvel Universe through the eyes of the man on the street was, more or less, a way to do two things: First, it gave us a narrative hook that would tie together all the things Alex wanted to paint, from the original Human Torch to Gwen Stacy, and second, it was a perspective that took advantage of Alex’s breathtakingly photorealistic art. I’d written a couple of stories prior to that from “normal human” viewpoints and liked it, but I think taking advantage of how “real” Alex made the Marvels look was a big reason we chose it— and sure, the same approach could have been taken with Kirby’s art, though I don’t think it would have worked out the same, just as a straight retelling of the Galactus Trilogy by Alex wouldn’t

work out the same as the original. Both would probably be good, and have their own strength and power—but it wouldn’t be the same. TJKC: You use a similar stylistic approach in Astro City. I’m thinking specifically of your “First Family” storyline where Astra runs away from “home, sweet fortress” so she can be a “normal” kid. Do you think Kirby and Lee could have pulled off this type of story in the FF? They did have the Thing return to normal a few times, but it

(above) This page was used as page 2 of Captain Victory #3 (Mar. 1982), but was actually part of the original Kirby story that was drawn in the mid-1970s. 17

Mike gartland

Giant-Man:

“Giant-Man always sounded rather corny to me.” No, that’s not my opinion, but that of the character himself, or rather the opinion of the man putting the words into his mouth at that time; namely Stan Lee (see Avengers #28). Even though it was probably just another line of dialogue, Lee does tend to bear out the apparent history of ambivalence towards the character by many Marvel fans. The history of Giant-Man is pretty much the history of any media-created character, be it comic strip, television, book, movie, etc.; when sales (or ratings) slip, tinker with the formula and hope it catches on or finds a new audience. Unfortunately, GiantMan never really did; never in Marvel’s (then-new) history has so much been done to keep a character going. By decade’s end the Henry Pym character would be able to rival Sybil in alter-egos. s mentioned in an earlier article covering Ant-Man (TJKC #18), Giant-Man came out of expediency. The Ant-Man character had begun to stagnate soon after Kirby left it (Jack drew issues #35-40; his influence on the plots is unknown at this time, but appears to be negligible), and Lee was looking for a new approach to freshen it up. Jack came back in Astonish #44 and developed The Wasp, which was a step in the right direction; it was hoped that a team might boost sales. When this didn’t happen (to the satisfaction of Martin Goodman, anyway), Lee brought Jack back in for more changes and this is where the character deviated from his original concept. It must be noted that Lee and Lieber (who handled the plots and scripts) never utilized the full potential of the small hero vs. the giant villain as Gardner Fox so brilliantly did with The Atom. The Lee/Lieber stories were among the most lackluster efforts done for a hero at that time; Ernie Hart (under the pseudonym H.E. Huntley) came on as scripter in issue #44 and the stories improved to some extent. Ernie Hart dialogue (!), Kirby Don Heck was drawing and inkpencils, and Heck inks for the ing the Ant-Man strip Wasp’s intro in Astonish #44. whenever Kirby wasn’t called in, and his work fluctuated from issue to issue. Heck was still learning “Marvel method” plus drawing other strips as well, and in many instances his work on Ant-Man seems rushed and unfinished. These may have been contributing factors to the drop in sales; is it more than coincidence that sales began to drop on

Ant-Man after his first six issues (the issues Jack worked on)? The “Giant” theme was hardly new to comics; there were giant monsters and villains a’plenty fighting super-heroes since the Golden Age. There was even an early attempt at a giant hero (Green Giant Comics, 1940), and DC’s Spectre was growing and shrinking all the time; but this was the first attempt at giving a giant hero his own feature on a regular basis. Unfortunately by the Sixties, Jack failed to see that creating a hero whose power was that he was huge was almost taking a step backwards in comparison to the highly imaginative and unique heroes he was creating for Marvel at the same time. The Ant-Man was that type of intriguing character, but due to less-than-average scripting and art whenever he wasn’t on the strip, Jack kept being called back in to do a quick fix. Lee—to his credit—never stopped trying to make the character saleable; this is a clear example of how quickly a strip could founder when the Kirby/Lee team wasn’t directly involved. So it’s simple: Ya put a “Gi” in front of Ant-Man and violá: Giant-Man was born. As simple as it seemed, Jack was still trying his best to make the character interesting. Rather than a simple giant, Jack wanted Pym to become known as a master of sizes. The Ant-Man character was not to be fully abandoned (perhaps because of The Wasp), but his costume had to go through some revision. The Ant-Man costume was a perfect example by Kirby of form following function; but when he had to develop the Giant-Man angle, yet retain Ant-Man aspects, that costume conception went flying out the window. As mentioned in the Ant-Man article in TJKC #18, the Ant-Man costume became a diluted version of itself soon after its inception; with Giant-Man the costume became an absurd exponent of the original design. The wonderfully

Big Fish in a Bigger Pond unique Ant-Man helmet was abandoned in favor of a simple cowl with two antennae jutting out of it (in the initial story, Jack had the cybernetic antcommunication equipment inside the cowl with xylophonelike bars on both outer sides, giving Giant-Man’s head a somewhat rounded insect-like appearance; but as usual this was soon forgotten and abandoned). The boots and gloves were retained, and the belt was altered to contain the new size-changing capsules (inhaling gas was out, perhaps at the Surgeon General’s insistence). The red leotards that were acceptable when the hero was minute also stayed, but in his giant incarnation they gave the appearance of red long johns. The icing on this ludicrous costume cake came when the ant symbol that originally adorned the first costume then became a simple black dot on the hero’s chest, continued for one issue with the Giant-Man character; then it was to be replaced by two suspenders—originally pinstripe, later turning to black depending on who was drawing/inking the strip; how chic! (This should have been a red flag that some quality control was needed.) The initial Giant-Man story had him battle an inter-dimensional character called “The Living Eraser.” Les Daniels, in his book Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades points out that this was one of those nutty, unique Lee creations, to which Lee added: “I got a big kick out of it when I dreamed up that idea.” Apparently Mr.

Daniels never knew that this character was a derivative of a Kirby story called “Today I am A...?”, where a boy erases himself, originally done with Joe Simon for Black Cat Mystic #59 in 1957, or

(previous page, far left) Giant-Man from the splash page of Avengers #5 (May 1964), inked by Paul Reinman. (previous page, lower left) Inset of Ant-Man from Tales to Astonish #40 (Feb. 1963), inked by Sol Brodsky. (previous page, above) Shot of the Wasp from her first appearance in Astonish #44 (June 1963). Don Heck inks. (this page, above) Kirby splash page from Tales to Astonish #50 (Dec. 1963), inked by Steve Ditko. (far right) Giant-Man becomes Goliath, from the cover of Avengers #30 (July 1966). Inked by Frank Giacoia. 25

In the months immediately prior to Kirby leaving Marvel, there were three reprint titles regularly spotlighting Kirby work: Two active (Where Creatures Roam, Where Monsters Dwell) and one on hiatus (Marvel’s Greatest Comics). Within four months of Kirby starting at DC, the number had swollen to seven: The previous three (Marvel’s Greatest Comics had restarted), two new titles (Fear, Special Marvel Edition), and two regular series downgraded to reprints (X-Men and Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD). Within six months another two series would be retrofitted and highlight Kirby work (Monsters On The Prowl and Creatures On The Loose), plus seven super-hero annuals (FF, Thor, Hulk, Avengers, X-Men, Iron Man and Captain America) would feature Kirby reprints in 1971, with three sporting Kirby covers. While many of these reprints didn’t have Kirby covers, it’s amazing how many had Gil Kane redoing Jack’s original covers. Why would anyone ever have an artist the caliber of Gil Kane redo a Kirby original? It was the equivalent of putting The Lucille Ball Show up against old I Love Lucy reruns, with the reruns on a major network, while the new show was on a public service channel. To new customers, a known quantity is often preferable to chancing an unknown one. It was basically a no-lose situation for Marvel, and a no-winner for DC. The fourth reason I feel the Fourth World books failed was that Kirby extended himself too far. His tale was told over four separate, yet interrelated books. It was very hard for anyone to casually pick up an issue and understand who the characters were, or where the plot was going. The cast was so large

and overwhelming, with new characters jumping in and out at the oddest times, and a strange non-linear plotline. The idea of picking up a new book, enjoying it, and tracking down back issues was unheard of (except for a small group of diehard fans). While in retrospect, these features highlight just how ahead of his time Jack was, at the time it must have been very off-putting to readers used to shorter, linear stories, with one main hero. At a time when the casual reader was still the bread and butter of the industry, Kirby’s extended epic format was too unwieldy and sprawling. It was just too large an undertaking for its time. It’s interesting that later, when Kirby returned to the typical comics format with Kamandi, he would have that long-running success that Infantino hoped for, but it was too little, too late. By then Kirby felt betrayed and resentful, his epic had been cut short, and while he enjoyed doing Kamandi, it was not where he had envisioned his career to be. So were they a failure? Yes and no; not everything that Kirby had hoped, but more than Infantino ever dreamed. If one deems them a failure, don’t look for scapegoats or conspiracies; there aren’t any. It was a simple case of the stars being aligned against them: A new-style series, at a struggling company, during a shrinking market, overpowered by a shrewd competitor. It’s a wonder that the

series lasted as long as it did, but as usual, Kirby left the company with a treasure trove of characters and concepts that are still in play today. ★

(above) Early 1970s drawing of Orion.

(below) Pencils from the New Gods entry in DC’s Who’s Who #16 (June 1986).

Retrospective

An Annual Tradition

Exploring the FF Annuals by Patrick A. Price

(this page) Four of the new pin-ups Kirby drew for Fantastic Four Annual #2 (1964, inks by Chic Stone).

ertainly the adjective that best describes Stan Lee’s and Jack Kirby’s 102-plus issue run on Fantastic Four is seminal. Fantastic Four #1 is unquestionably the seed that sprouted into the Marvel Age. Lee and Kirby introduced a plethora of heroes and villains during their tenure on the FF. There was also considerable change in the lives of the fab four. Much of that change took

place in the six Annuals the team created. Reed and Sue were married in the third Annual; they announced Sue’s pregnancy in #5 and their son was born in #6. The lives of some of the FF’s most famous (and infamous) guest-stars were changed or revealed in the Annuals. Sub-Mariner finds the lost race of Atlantis in the first Annual; Doctor Doom’s origin is revealed in #2; the FF encounter the Golden Age Human Torch in #4; Silver Surfer starred in his first solo adventure in #5. “Sub-Mariner Versus the Human Race,” a 37-page story from 1963, is a fairly straightforward adventure. Subby nearly defeats Reed, Ben and Johnny in his quest to conquer the surface world for his race, but his love for Sue proves to be his undoing as he saves her from drowning. Upon returning to Atlantis, Namor finds his kingdom deserted. His subjects believe he has betrayed them and they have forsaken him. Jack illustrates a myriad of sea monsters and Subby’s denizens of the deep in this tale. It’s reminiscent of his aliens that appeared in comics like Tales Of Suspense and Tales To Astonish from a few years earlier. Lee and Kirby also recount Subby’s origin in this story, remaining faithful to Bill Everett’s version from Marvel Comics #1. Fantastic Four Annual #1 also recounts the team’s first encounter with Spider-Man. It’s an expanded version of a three-page episode that occurred in Spider-Man #1. Spidey breaks into the Baxter Building and fights the FF to a standstill to prove to them he’s worthy of joining the team and garnishing a top salary. They tell him they’re a non-profit organization. In the Torch’s words, “You came to the wrong place, pal. This isn’t General Motors.” The first 13 pages of Fantastic Four #1 are reprinted in this issue, familiarizing readers with their origin. My favorite parts of the issue (as with nearly all of the Marvel Annuals from the 1960s) are the featurette pages. Readers are treated to 11 pages of “A Gallery of the Fantastic Four’s Most Famous Foes,” plus “Questions and Answers About the Fantastic Four” and “Inside the Baxter Building.” Sure, I destroyed a rare Silver Age comic, cutting out the pin-ups of the FF’s foes, but I loved having my own Jack Kirby “gallery” hanging on my bedroom walls. “The Fantastic Origin of Doctor Doom” is the lead feature in Fantastic Four Annual #2. It’s also my personal favorite comic book origin. The story of young Victor Von Doom is full of pathos as he suffers the angst of witnessing his father succumb to the elements, fleeing the wrath of an evil baron. Von Doom also first encounters Reed Richards in this story while attending college. He’ll later blame Reed for the 33

Internationalities

Ladronn: A Kindred Interview conducted by George Khoury • Edited by Ladronn & George Khoury

(below) Carlos Pacheco and Ladronn’s splash page to Inhumans #2.

(A native of Mexico, José Ladronn has made a noticeable impact on the comics industry in very little time. As penciler, together with writer Joe Casey and inker Juan Vlasco, he took Marvel Comics’ Cable series through a renaissance to the excitement and epic storytelling of the Lee and Kirby era. Ladronn’s linework and sense of design made an astounding connection with comics readers everywhere, from its early Kirby homage through an evolution that hearkens toward a synthesis of Kirby and Moebius. Yet it wasn’t till last year that we were able to see what he could really do as an artist. With his work in The Inhumans and the Thor 2000 Annual, Ladronn was able to show his work as painter, a painting style that is beautiful, bold, and immaculate. It’s hard to believe that the best of Ladronn’s art is still to come.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Where are you from, and what type of art training did you have? LADRONN: I am from Mexico and I was born in Minatitlan, Veracruz. I never studied drawing—I studied graphic design—but all my life I’ve been drawing. I’ve always had that in me. TJKC: What were your first comics and influences? LADRONN: When I was younger, before even learning to read, I had liked comics. The first books that I had were from DC Comics; I had Kamandi issues, Mister Miracle, The Demon! I also had some Fantastic Four books; almost all of them were Kirby books, published in Mexico and [printed] in Spanish. TJKC: Can you explain the attraction to Kamandi and those other books? LADRONN: I liked reading those books because when I was a child I didn’t have a lot of friends, just my classmates. I would spend entire days in house, normally alone, but I was always doing something. I liked those books because the stories were very impressionable on me. That’s why I liked them a lot. TJKC: Would you consider Jack Kirby to be your most important influence? LADRONN: Yes. Kirby was an important influence, especially in books like Kamandi and Mister Miracle. TJKC: When did you start to lean towards a professional career in the comics industry? LADRONN: I always thought that one day I was going to create comics. When I was younger, I studied and sometimes during my leisure time I would make comics. But when I was older, I was fortunate to have gotten the break to be able to work professionally in comics. TJKC: Can you explain the Kirby influence in your artistic style? LADRONN: I think that Kirby has been an important influence for myself as an artist in the super-hero genre because his style is the strongest. His drawings show strength and were always so dynamic. TJKC: Does it ever bother you when people compare your artwork to Kirby’s work? LADRONN: No, it doesn’t bother me. When I’ve drawn something in the past, and I’ve drawn it close to Kirby’s style, that for me is a lot of fun and an honor to be able to do something like that. Especially today, there are so many out they’re who have forgotten his style, and I honestly believe that you can’t forget the lessons of the past. Today’s comics would be nothing without those influences that existed in the past. TJKC: Are there any others you would consider an influence?

Spirit LADRONN: The majority of the comics that I’ve read—not the ones when I was a kid, but the comics that I read when I was a little older—were the European comics. The majority of my artistic influences are European; they are Spanish, French, and Belgian. I am a great admirer of Moebius and other European artists. Those are my other influences. TJKC: Is there a comics market in Mexico? LADRONN: The market in Mexico is extremely tough. In Mexico, I worked in something completely different. In Mexico I worked as a designer at a television company; that was my job. I did storyboards and three-dimensional promotionals for a television company. Generally, most Mexican comics are translated comics from the United States. There are comics produced in Mexico, but the majority of them, especially the super-hero books, are American.

TJKC: How did you break into the American market? LADRONN: I was invited. A friend gave me the idea to come to San Diego, to Comicon, and I came one year to see what types of things were done in a convention. So I prepared a portfolio and returned the next year; that’s how I got work at Marvel. TJKC: So Cable was your first book? LADRONN: My first work was in Marvel’s Shadows and Lights. It was a Blade story, twelve pages in black-&-white. I only did the pencils and someone else did the inks. TJKC: How did you get the Cable series? LADRONN: After Shadows and Lights, the editor, James Felder, told me he was interested in doing an additional project with me and so I did Spiderboy in the second year of the Amalgam books. After that I was offered Cable Minus 1 which in turned got me the Cable series on a regular basis. TJKC: Was it challenging working on a monthly basis? LADRONN: Yes, it was difficult. I don’t like the idea of working month-to-month. It’s very tolling on an artist. You can’t always

do your best and you always have all this pressure on you. There are moments that the work doesn’t come out quite as intended. TJKC: Did your editor pick up on the Kirby influence immediately?

(above) Flame on! Kirby’s pencils from Fantastic Four #89, page 16 (Aug. 1969).

LADRONN: Yes, right from the beginning that Kirby was my influence. I’ve always combined the European works with the American works. I tried to combine many details as is done in Europe with the type of work that Kirby did, which was a style that was even too powerful for super-heroes—but for this market in 49

Tribute

2000 Kirby Tribute Panel Conducted at the 2000 Comicon International: San Diego Featuring (clockwise from left, below) moderator Mark Evanier, Gene Colan, Roy Thomas, Tracy Kirby, Jeremy Kirby, and Marie Severin, and transcribed by Eric Nolen-Weathington

(below) Detail from the splash page of Thor #173 (Feb. 1970), inked by Bill Everett.

MARK EVANIER: One of the panels I couldn’t possibly let anyone else do—I would’ve mud-wrestled anyone else who tried— is the Annual, except for last year, Jack Kirby Tribute Panel. The reason we didn’t have one last year was that it got lost in the schedule. It was being scheduled at one point and at the last minute there was just no room to do it justice, so we passed on it. Everybody came up to me and said,

“Where’s the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel? There must be room.” They were angry; and I said, “Okay, we will never miss the Jack Kirby Tribute Panel again.” As long as this convention is here we will do this every year. [applause] I would like to introduce to you—well, this panel is going to go in two chapters. We’re going to start by talking about the current legacy of Jack and the family; some projects they’re working on that involve Jack’s characters. Jack wanted very much to have his work be profitable for his family. Those of you who know Jack know he was very concerned with leaving first Roz and then his kids and his grandkids something on which to build; work that made them profit, both financially and personally, and use it to advance their careers and advance their creativity—and it has been very much a pleasure to see Jeremy and Tracy, grandchildren of Jack’s, run with some of this stuff and flourish in their own careers. I’d like to introduce you to Tracy Kirby and Jeremy Kirby. [applause] I’ll introduce the other three people in a moment, but let’s ask Tracy and Jeremy, in either order, a little bit about what they’re up to. I know a lot of things are happening that can’t be discussed. Which one of you wishes to go first? Jeremy? JEREMY KIRBY: [I’m] currently working on comic books— Captain Victory and the

Galactic Rangers. We did that using some of the original artwork as well as artwork that none of you have ever seen before—I can guarantee that because it was bound in a box for about 20 years. So that’ll be pretty exciting, when you take a look at that. We’re working on the Captain Victory mini-series as well as the website [www.kingkirby.com] and getting that set up and professional within the next few months, hopefully. There’s really a lot of projects going on right now. Tracy is doing a lot of the movie-type entertainment things—television. I’ve just been concentrating on comic books. If you want to talk some about the movies...? TRACY KIRBY: My brother is a fast talker. [laughter] This has just been an ongoing process, I think, for both of us. And we’re kind of looking at different characters and projects that we’ve taken personally to heart over the last couple of years. For myself, I went to Mike Richardson at Dark Horse Comics, who has been a long-time, close friend of the family for many, many years, and we want to do projects together. He wants to take some of Jack’s work and really do something wonderful with it. So, one of the first projects— one of my main priorities that I have been working on with Dark Horse—is an obscure project called Satan’s Six that Jack did in ’93; a very small comic book series that came out from Topps Comics. Basically, we just took Jack’s original concept ideas and characters and [Mike Richardson] helped us set it up. We just got two writers attached to the project who are finishing up Ridley Scott’s next movie. That’s a project that I’m really looking forward to. I’m keeping my fingers crossed, because I’ve learned over the last couple of years that I’ve been in Hollywood that things change very, very quickly. You really get your hopes up high, then you take the fall and you have to get back up and try again. I’m also trying to develop Challengers of the Unknown as well. So those are the two projects that I’m focusing on. I love ’em, especially Challengers. I love the stories. I know Jeremy has always taken Captain Victory to heart. The good thing [is] that our grandfather left us not just the mainstream characters. I wish all the Marvel characters well. I mean, I’m so happy that X-Men took off; they did a wonderful job. I won’t say anything about the credit

issue at the moment, but Jeremy and I do have a wonderful opportunity to use obscure characters and show our own creativity as well. My most important concern is getting [Jack’s] name out there and keeping it alive. It’s been hard. It’s kind of hard when you see his characters all over the place and no one really knows who he is. I’d just love to one day see a project that’s solely Jack Kirby. I wish my brother well with his projects. He’s the

computer guru, so he’s in charge of all the websites. We have a lot of opportunities. It’s been a wild ride. Everyone that we have met over the past couple of years trying to get things going has just been wonderful. We can only go up from here. MARK: By the way, DC Comics is about an inch-and-a-half from producing either another volume of the Fourth World reprints or a Challengers of the Unknown volume. It would not hurt anything if you went by the DC booth, grabbed Paul Levitz by the lapels, and said, “Put out one of these things quickly.” They really seem to respond to what demand they get at the conventions. They are poised to do these things. A very slight nudge and you’ll see the rest of the Fourth World material collected in a volume, you’ll see Challengers. And they are poised to try to do Jimmy Olsen maybe next year. They’re doing a Supergirl Archive now. So we’ve moved

(above) Cover pencils to the 1975 Marvel Treasury Edition #7, featuring the Avengers.