Comic Book Creator #2: Joe Kubert by TwoMorrows Publishing

#2 • Summer 2013

a tribute to the

presents

W ho is Joe Kubert?

Born Yosaif Kubert in Yzeran, Poland, on Sept. 18, 1926, Joe came to America with family as an infant, growing up in hard-scrabble Brooklyn, New York, where nascent drawing talent and early exposure to newspaper adventure comic strips set him on a career path. Coming of age during the Great Depression with a strong work ethic that would guide him throughout his 85 years, the only son was instilled with an enduring desire to lead by example. Joe eagerly sought out comics studios, where he swept floors at the tender age of 11, soon selling his first professional work as artist. Early on the youngster developed a sustained gratitude for the opportunity to learn from more seasoned pros who unselfishly shared expertise and experience with this kid from off the street. Joe Kubert’s professional accolades are tremendous: Influential fan favorite with his ’40s “Hawkman” work; co-creator of 3-D comics; artist of exemplary war comics with “Sgt. Rock” and “Enemy Ace”; early supporter of comics fandom; newspaper strip artist; innovative and hugely respected comics editor; talented writer; likely the finest comics adapter of Tarzan; founder/head instructor of the first — and only — institution devoted to teaching the art of the comic book; progenitor of graphic novels, beginning with the proto-journalism of Fax from Sarajevo and culminating in his masterpiece, Yossel: April 19, 1943. To the end, which occurred on Aug. 12, 2012, Joe always strove to create better work. Family was always paramount to Joe, so much so his beloved wife, Muriel, was also his partner in the Kubert School, and so much so that two of his sons were inspired to follow him into the field, where they have excelled on their own. Words cannot attest to the quality of his artistry, but we can say without equivocation that Joe Kubert was one of the best stylists and storytellers to ever grace the field of the comic book, American or otherwise. Come see in these pages and judge for yourself. And learn more about this wonderful man.

Frontispiece: Background is, courtesy of Heritage Auctions, Joe Kubert’s preliminary Tarzan sketch, rendered about the time DC Comics obtained the license in the early ’70s. Circular inset is a detail from Joe’s “Gargoyles” two-pager, which appeared, among other places, in black-&-white in the TwoMorrows book, Streetwise. You’ll find the fully-hued version courtesy of Peter Carlsson and The Kubert School inside these pages, ably colored by Joe Panico of Tell-A-Graphics. Page two-three spread: Seth Kushner shared this evocative portrait of Joe from Autumn 2008, originally shot for Seth and Christopher Irving’s book, Leaping Tall Buildings: The Origins of American Comics. Page four: Joe Kubert’s drawing table, as he last left it, in his Kubert School office. Photos by Ye Ed, Mar. ’13. Page five: Ye Ed’s own copy of DC Special #5 [Oct.-Dec. ’69], a comic entirely devoted to Joe Kubert, who personally inscribed the cover during Joe and Ye Ed’s first meeting in Feb. ’97. This page: Joe Kubert and his three-and-a-half year old youngest son, Andy, at the drawing board working on the syndicated newspaper adventure comic strip Tales of the Green Berets. Andy wrote on a DC blog about this Morristown Daily Record photo from 1965: “It was taken in my dad’s studio in the house I grew up in… his studio was above the attached garage overlooking the woods in the backyard. I still remember the smell of the paper and ink in there. He would let me set up a little area to draw and read comics as he drew. I loved the war, mystery and Superman and Batman comics. He would also show me a few drawing tricks… From the looks of the photo, I don’t know how he put up with me in there!” Next page: [clockwise from top] The Kubert School lensed by Sara Harper-Hudson and courtesy of Jae H. Choi & TKS; Joe confers with an aspiring artist at a Kubert School open house in recent years; and the old Baker Mansion, original abode of the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art, Inc., and now a school dormitory. Courtesy of William Bossert.

Table of Contents

Editor’s Preface: Joe Kubert and the Power of Example........................... 8 Making His Mark: Christopher Irving’s Visit with Joe Kubert.................. 10 Bill Schelly’s Top Ten Joe Kubert Comics.................... 19 Keepers of the Flame: Adam & Andy Kubert on Facing the Future................. 22 The Making of a Master of Sequential Art.................. 40 Arlen Schumer: Joe Kubert’s Five Comic Stars.......... 57 Ervin Rustemagic’s Fax from Sarajevo Postscript...... 63 The Wizard Remembers Joe: An Interview with Frank Thorne.................................... 67 The All-American Cartoonist: A Chat with Irwin Hasen by Michael Aushenker....... 72 Fred Hembeck’s Dateline: ??!!@#................................. 77 That Other Man of Rock: Russ Heath Interview by Richard Arndt....................... 78 “Gargoyles” by Joe Kubert/Colors by Joe Panico......... 80 Day-In, Day-Out: Working with Joe Kubert An Interview with Peter Carlsson................................. 82

George Pratt on Teaching the Teacher........................ 90 Rick Veitch’s Journey with Joe..................................... 93 Giving Back: Teaching at the Kubert School . ............ 96 Timothy Truman: Joe Kubert’s Heart & Fire............... 106 Paul Levitz on Kubert Taking Care of Business......... 111 Fans, Friends & Students Remember the Master.... 116 Ivan Snyder’s Wonderful World of Heroes................ 142 Harry Brod on the Anti-War War Comics Artist....... 144 A Portrait of Joe Kubert by Greg Preston.................. 149 Comic Book Creator Contributors............................... 149 Joe’s Return to Jewish Roots by Rafael Medoff....... 150 Creator’s Creators: The Aushenker Effect................. 159 Coming Attractions: Comic Book Creator #3............. 159 One Picture is Worth a Thousand Words.................. 160 ABOUT OUR COVER: Sergio Cariello, himself a comic book professional who graduated the Kubert School, expertly delineates a pastiche of Joe Kubert’s iconic Our Army at War #220 [June 1970] cover, no doubt itself a sly homage by Joe to his beloved caveman creation, Tor. Colors by Tom Ziuko, who recaptured the startling orange/blue color motif! Thanks to Sergio and Tom.

Joe Kubert & the Power of Example

Inset right: Postcard from the Words & Pictures Museum announcing the Fax from Sarajevo exhibit opening in Feb. 1997, where Ye Ed first met one of his comic book heroes, the legendary Joe Kubert.

Somewhere in this mess I call an office, there’s a letter addressed to me from Joe Kubert, the first missive I ever received from a comic book professional. It was a handwritten response to a fan letter I wrote in the early ’80s to the man, one that probably expressed my amazement at his artwork in that Detective Comics #500 “Hawkman” story, or the Winged Warrior tale in Justice League of America #200. Maybe it was that wondrous Superman/Demon team-up in DC Comics Presents… Regardless, I found Joe’s reply in my mailbox mere days after I sent in my note. I recall my astonishment at the thoughtful consideration he granted both in kind words expressing appreciation for my kudos and in sending the answer back so quickly. Hell, I doubt I even asked for a reply…. The first time I met the legendary comic book creator in person, it was during the opening of Joe’s Fax from Sarajevo exhibit at the (late and sorely missed) Words and Pictures Museum, in Northampton, Mass., in February, 1997. I came with my older brother Chris, and we arrived earlier than the 10:30 a.m. start. And there, standing alone, was Joe. It’s fair to say I latched onto Joe like Chee-Chee onto Tor. I asked many, many questions and, awed as I was by Joe’s stature, I was tenacious in monopolizing the artist/writer’s attention. I asked about Bob Kanigher, about Tarzan coming over to DC, about The Redeemer, about Tales of the Green Berets… you name it. Today I can’t remember everything that was discussed on that winter’s day in central Massachusetts, but I can tell you that I will never forget how kind, gracious and attentive Joe was to me, a mere schmendrik, a nobody, just a overzealous fanboy demanding answers. I’ll also never forget how much time I took of him that Saturday morning, while other attendees frequently looked over at us, no doubt hoping to ask Joe their own questions. But he kept zeroed in on me, granting his complete, utmost attention. What an incredibly nice guy! When I told Adam and Andy, Joe’s two youngest sons, who are super-star comic book

artists in their own right, about my first meeting with their father, they chuckled and Adam assured me I wasn’t unique in getting Joe’s undivided attention: “Well, don’t think you’re so special because he did that with everybody.” But at that moment in time, in that New England chill of 1997, with his amazing ability to stay in the present and pay attention, Joe warmed me and I felt very special indeed. Heck, he even let Chris and I take him out to lunch. Sigh. Thus began an association that lasted through the years. I was privileged to interview him repeatedly, and even devoting an issue of Comic Book Artist to Joe and his boys, in a “Father & Sons” special, where my pals Arlen Schumer and Chris Knowles joined me to sit around Joe’s big conference table at the school to chat with Adam, Andy, and their old man. A few years later, on a bright, summer Saturday morning in 2006, Joe graciously consented to an on-camera interview for my younger brother, Andy, Kris Schackman and my feature film documentary, Will Eisner: Portrait of a Sequential Artist, spotlighting one of Joe’s first bosses in the business. What do I recall best about Joe through all these encounters? I remember his friendly chuckling, broad grins and perpetual good spirits. He really was a very, very nice man. I could sense too, though, that Joe was also a pretty tough guy. He commanded respect. You didn’t mess around Joe Kubert by Ronn Sutton with Joe. You said what you meant and meant what you said, or you’d get that look. You didn’t want to get that look. That grin: that’s what you wanted to see…. And so Joe Kubert is gone. He seemed immortal in his way, his work consistently improving with every job (okay, his inks got a little looser into his 80s, sure, but the storytelling only got better, believe you me) and he showed up at the school seven days a week, teaching class on Tuesdays, his office door always open. But he passed away in August of last year and despite being 85, his fans and peers were shocked that the great man had passed away. Spending time with Adam and Andy more than six months after Joe’s death, the boys were still understandably upset that their father is no more. When giving me a tour of the entire school, Andy escorted me from top floor to basement bottom, as he let me look in every classroom and take pictures. The last door the youngest Kubert unlocked for me was his father’s office. The air was still and musty. The room hadn’t been opened in a while. The giant Tarzan poster was still on its spot on the wall, the huge conference table remained in place, and, as I looked over toward the window, as the late winter sun strained to peek through the shuttered Venetian blinds, there it was: Joe Kubert’s drawing table, everything left as when he last sat there, creating his stories to share with us all. It was good to see that. I miss him.

Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

Your humble editor remembers a considerate and generous creator, mentor… mensch

Editor’s Preface Inset left: Exactly as Joe Kubert left his studio for the final time, here is the master’s drawing table, photographed during Ye Ed’s recent visit to the Kubert School.

Joe’s passing puts in stark relief the passing of his generation, who are leaving this mortal coil at a gut-wrenching, albeit predictable, rate. More than a few tears have been shed in organizing this tribute. I called Sam Glanzman (88), who had so wonderfully contributed to Streetwise for John Morrow and myself, but he regretted he was too ill to participate despite so desperately wanting to be involved. I went in search of Ric Estrada, recalling the lovely chats at conventions when we planned a feature someday, only to find that my friend had passed on in May 2009, at age 81. I fielded a call to J. David Spurlock, hoping to get a few words from Carmine Infantino to learn the legendary artist and Kubert friend was in no condition to speak, and sadly one of my heroes passed on at 87 subsequent to that call. Of course, there were bright spots: Talking again with Russ Heath, who at 86 told me to hurry up and get the issue devoted to him off the launch pad, “before I kick the bucket!” Rest assured, early next year will see that CBC edition, so hang in there, Russ! Frank Thorne, despite failing eyesight, has taken up oil painting and will be the subject of gallery showings in his native New Jersey. It was delightful to finally get a chance to interview the 82-year-old wizard and quite a kick to receive not one, but two paintings for this issue!

And it’s always great to hear from the shortest cartoonist with the most seniority, Irwin Hasen, who may be slowing down at 94, but his wit is as sharp as ever. Keep up the jokes, “loverboy”! Of course, there simply is not enough room in this book, even at twice the usual issue size, to adequate cover Joe Kubert’s amazing body of work. Peter Carlsson, Kubert archivist; Ervin Rustemagic of Strip Art Features; and Kubert biographer and longtime pal Bill Schelly were all generous beyond measure, and I regret not being able to share all the treasures in the print edition (but do check the extended-cut PDF for the usual extras!). I especially wish I could have examined the lives of Joe’s partners over the years and studied the relationships they shared. First, there’s the ambitious and talented Norman Maurer (d. 1986), who joined up with Joe in junior high school to work as a team in comics. The pair would go on to create 3-D comics and, despite their parting when the comics waters got rough, Joe, years later, sought out Norm’s abilities for work in the DC war books he edited. Second, the indomitable writer/ editor Robert Kanigher, who collaborated with Joe on innumerable — and unforgettable — features, most prominently “Sgt. Rock” and “Enemy Ace.” Joe, who succeeded Bob as editor of the DC war comics line, was also loyal to the writer to the end. R.K. passed on in 2002 at the age of 86. And finally, there is Joe Kubert’s most important partner of all — his bride since 1950 and the mother of their five children — Muriel Fogelson Kubert, who died in 2008. Together they founded the Kubert School. Though not adequately discussed, her spirit permeates much of this issue, for Muriel was Joe’s rock. — Ye Ed.

Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

What I will not miss is Joe Kubert’s work, because that will live on, and I can guarantee you, it will remain in print because of its overall excellence. Y’see, Joe was one of those rare creators who constantly pushed himself to do better. I know that because we can all see it in the work, art, and writing that always improved. I don’t have to sell you on it, I know. Anyway, just look through the pages of this special tribute issue and take in the scope of Joe’s artistry… What stuff!

Making His Mark: A Visit with Joe Kubert Christopher Irving interviews the comic book creator on a life well lived by Christopher Irving CBC Contributing Editor

Inset right: Courtesy of Bill Schelly and the Kubert family, a detail of Joe dressed in top hat and tails for his bar mitzvah party. Yes, by the time he was 13, Joe was a professional comic book artist

This piece, our opening article for this special Joe Kubert tribute, is by Ye Ed’s friend and confidante, Christopher Irving, and it appeared in slightly different form in the Irving/ Seth Kushner tome, Leaping Tall Buildings: The Origins of American Comics. The title was selected by yours truly and it refers to Joe’s introduction to his masterpiece, Yossel: April 19, 1943, where he wrote, “I started to draw as soon as I was old enough to hold anything that would make a mark.” 10

Joe Kubert stood up from the art table in his office at the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art, a warm and bright room with a long table in the center, and framed artwork of Joe’s on the far wall. On the wall alongside the door, and to the left, is a flat file, and Joe’s art table. Wearing a long-sleeved gray polo shirt and blue jeans, Joe Kubert’s youthfulness belied his age of 82. This was an early Spring day in 2009 and I arrived to finally interview Kubert in person, unlike the several times I’d chatted with him through a telephone receiver over the years. The man had a presence. And not just physical, but authoritative, yet kindly. It was a presence on par with the authority and power of his work, work that started at 12 years of age in 1938 that went from awkward to masterful. The older Joe Kubert got, the better his work became: something rare in even old comics masters, and still on display in his final work done for DC Comics, published posthumously in Joe Kubert Presents and, to a point, his inks on the Before Watchmen: Nite Owl comics drawn with his son Andy. This profile takes my essay from that recent spring day and merges with past talks with Joe to give a glimpse at the man and artist. Joe Kubert’s parents and sister tried to flee Poland in 1926, but his mother, pregnant with Joe, was denied passage. Only after Joe’s birth were they able to board and steam for the American shore, thus avoiding the rise of the Third Reich. Settling in the Lower East Side of Brooklyn, Joe’s father became a local butcher, while Joe and his sister grew up during the Great Depression in one of New York’s toughest neighborhoods. “I think that people now have a difficulty understanding what was going on at that time, compared to today,” Joe explained. “It was a simpler time, money was more difficult to come by, values were quite different, there were less people around, but competition was heavier… It’s like trying to describe what’s going on on Mars. It was a different world.” The world of Jew Gangster, Kubert’s 2005 graphic novel based on that otherworldly childhood environment, follows the initiation of a teenager into the world

of organized crime, eager to make something of himself to provide for his family… no matter the cost to his conscience or soul. Kubert admitted the family in the book was “closely aligned” to his own, and a departure point for the more dangerous childhood that he might have had. “In fact, in the neighborhood where I grew up, it was not unusual to see who would be considered a crime figure today, walking around and looked at in terms of being a kind of hero,” Kubert reflected. “Here was somebody who, through his own endeavors and efforts (what was described by other civilians) had the guts to go ahead and do what it was he felt he had to do in order to make a buck. Everybody else would have loved to do the same thing to make that kind of an income, but were never willing to overstep the bounds for whatever reason.” I asked him if he was ever tempted to overstep those bounds, and there was an awkward pause. For a fleeting second, I reminded myself that even in his octogenarian years, Joe Kubert could probably still kick my 32-year-old butt. “Not really,” he answered, breaking the silence. “But the question is a provocative one, and I’m not sure if you really expect me to answer that honestly.” The tense moment gave way to a laugh, and he went into a story that has stayed with him since he was a kid: “But what it provokes right now is that I think of the reasons a lot of us stayed straight. Some of my friends ran into a lot of problems, in terms of the law and so forth, and it wasn’t a difficult thing to do. I was lucky in the fact that my parents were strict when it came to stuff like that, I recall, when I was six- or seven-years-old. “When people bought newspapers, they’d put the pennies on the newsstand, take the newspaper, and just walk away. One time, I took the pennies off the newsstand and put them in my pocket. I was with my kid sister, who was three years younger than I, and the moment we walked into my father’s store (my father owned a butcher store at the time), she told my father I took the pennies off of the stand. She immediately reported it to my father. My father, who was quite a disciplinarian, instead of making a big to-do about it, took me by the hand and walked me back to the newsstand, and made me give the pennies to the owner. I was mortified. That was quite a lesson to me, but that was the kind of thing that happened, and one of the things that kept me straight. It was not because I wasn’t tempted, but because that’s how it worked out. “Another thing was that I was occupied, Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

and drawing all of the time, and it helped me not get into a heck of a lot of trouble.” Like a lot of kids during the Depression, Joe also had his nose in the daily comics that, back then carried a lot more weight and credibility than their staple-bound comic book counterparts. A look at a Depression-era comics section was populated with everything from Harold Gray’s Little Orphan Annie, to Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon, E.C. Segar’s Thimble Theater, or especially Chester Gould’s Dick Tracy. It was a mixture of genres, styles, and artistic mastery by some of the greatest cartoonists to ever have lived. “The newspaper strips at that time were really what everybody strove for,” Joe said. “Every artist that was working for comic books was looking to do that. It was an adult media because it was read in the newspapers and used by the papers in a competitive effort to get readers, and it also paid a helluva lot better.” Like all kids reading comics, he undoubtedly dreamed himself in his heroes’ shoes. That ability to transport himself into another time and situation is still at play in two of his more recent graphic novels: the aforementioned Jew Gangster and Yossel: April 19, 1943. In Yossel, Kubert speculates what would have happened to him had his parents given up on coming to America after that first rejection during his mother’s pregnancy. What follows is the telling of a 15-year-old Kubert’s life, a poor boy gifted with the ability to draw his heroes on whatever scrap of paper he could find. Yossel transports Joe/Yossel and his family into the ghettos, with the specter of the concentration camps looming. Finally, orphaned, Yossel joins the resistance to fight the Nazis to the death. The artwork, like Yossel’s journey into manhood, remains incomplete, quick and loose pencil linework with even the artist’s guide lines still intact. “I felt that the character himself, the kid, is evolving as an artist,” Kubert said. Like his graphic novel’s much younger counterpart, Joe Kubert himself continues to evolve, styles changing from project to project. His apathy towards glorifying his past achievements, as well as his inability to look at artists aged 20-something to 80 as “new” or “old” — kept him as current an artist as his sons, Adam and Andy, despite the reverence of fans and professionals alike. Kubert neither romanticized the past (“To try to analyze what was going on at the time?” he answers. “It never entered my head”) nor was he stuck there. His contemporaries were the ones now drawing comics and telling stories, and he was still right up there with them. Kubert entered the young comic-book industry at a tender age himself, as super-heroes were starting to take hold and the medium was gaining its footing, thanks to an army of fledgling artists and their often unscrupulous publishers. One of these publishers, MLJ, started off with super-heroes and eventually gave way to a Henry Aldrich knock-off named Archie Andrews, rechristening themselves Archie Comics. But on this early 1940s day, they were still a new publisher known as MLJ (named after the founders: Maurice Coyne, Louis Silberkleit, and John Goldwater) and Joe himself was shiny and new to comics. “Bob Montana, in fact, was just starting the Archie strip when I started coming up,” Joe recalled. “I was in junior high school, just getting out of eighth grade, before high school. I was living in Brooklyn at the time, Flatbush, and a friend of mine who I attended school with… the guys I hung with knew I drew and with kids, if you could draw, it was like magic. I was being kind of a magician. It was under those circumstances that one of my friends who said ‘I have a Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

portrait by seth kushner 11

Keepers of the Flame: Adam and Talking with Joe’s comic-book creator sons Conducted by JON B. COOKE & Christopher L. KNOWLES [The following interview took place in Andy Kubert’s studio on a sunny Saturday morning — March 9, 2013 — at The Kubert School, in Dover, New Jersey. About seven months had come and gone since their father had died, but the pain of his passing was still very near the surface for the brothers, the youngest sons of Joe Kubert. Ye Ed was joined by friend and former Comic Book Artist associate editor, Christopher L. Knowles, who himself was a graduate of The Kubert School. CBC is grateful to the Kubert men for taking time on a beautiful weekend and for being supportive of this tribute issue from its inception. This interview was transcribed by Brian K. Morris and was copy-edited for accuracy and clarification by Adam and Andy. — JBC]

Above: Adam (left) and Andy Kubert pose for Ye Ed in Andy’s studio at The Kubert School, during their interview at the Dover, N.J. art institution this past March. 22

Comic Book Creator: We’re at the Kubert School with Adam and Andy Kubert. It’s 11:24 and here we go. So, how’s it going, guys? Andy Kubert: It’s going as well as can be expected. It’s going okay. Chris Knowles: What’s on the plate? Adam Kubert: Well, today, I woke up at five, [laughter] I got my daughter off me, put her back in her bed — and my daughter’s three. What’s on my plate? I’m currently working on an issue of Uncanny Avengers. And then, after that, Marvel has a big project lined up for me that I can’t talk about yet. It’s a secret project. I just re-signed with Marvel for another three years. Chris: Exclusive? Adam: Exclusive. And as far as what’s on my plate, drawing-wise, that’s it. Oh yeah, I’m also doing six covers of one of Marvel’s events. Just the covers. Besides that, the things that are going on at the school…. Andy: You want to know what’s on my plate besides school stuff? What am I doing up at DC? I just wrapped an issue of Batman that’s coming out this week, #18. Scott Snyder’s writing it. There was a project I started in 2008, a project I wrote and drew, that I had to put down to work on various assignments: I did two issues of Batman with Neil Gaiman and then Flashpoint with Geoff Johns, and a whole bunch of other things. But I’m picking up that project again. It’s my first writing assignment. It’s a project that we are looking at putting out sometime this year. I think it’ll catch a lot of people’s attention. Hopefully they’ll like it! Chris: Cool. Who’s inking? Andy: I am. I’m writing, penciling and inking it. I’m not lettering or coloring it. [laughter] CBC: Obviously, it’s a long time in the planning. Is this the culmination of an idea you had? Andy: It is from an idea I had and it’s a character that I really love. DC actually encouraged me to do it — “Why don’t you start writing? Why don’t you give it a shot?” And I always wanted to write, and this is an opportunity to do it. CBC: And how’s the experience of writing? Andy: At first, it was daunting. [laughs] I had to come up with the idea and present the idea to the editors to get it approved. There’s a couple of phases you have to

Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

The Kubert Legacy

Andy Kubert on Facing the Future on lessons learned and shared responsibility to ensure their father’s dream endures go through, including re-writes, that kind of thing. And it was all-new to me, but it was all interesting and I really enjoyed it. But I think that the toughest part for me is going to be the dialogue. That’s an art unto itself and I don’t have the experience, so I’ve got to work on that a bit. [chuckles] But I’ll figure it out. CBC: Who’s the editor in that? Andy: Mike Marts, and he was a big help in assisting me to put it together. It was great working with him on it. But, besides that, what else do I have going on? [mutual chuckling] I drew the cover to this year’s Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. I also just did a whole bunch of covers, Batman covers, just a whole lot of covers. Things like that. One other thing that I do is, once a week, I go up to the DC offices and serve as a consultant on art, storytelling… anything they need. Chris: Now what do you do there? What does that include? Andy: I meet with the editors. If there’s any problems, if they see something that doesn’t work, storytelling-wise; something they have a problem with — anything — I go over it with them. We have meetings, literally all day, on that. CBC: About your work? Andy: It could be about mine or about whatever else they’re working on at that time. CBC: Are you a creative liaison or do you just make suggestions? Andy: I just make suggestions. It’s a consulting thing. Whatever they ask for help with. I like very much going up there and I like the people there. I get along great with them and there’s a nice camaraderie. I enjoy it a lot. CBC: Do you see an editorial capacity in the future for you, like your father? Andy: I have no idea where it’s going. It’s one day a week, right now, so it’s good for me. Besides that, I have the school and then I have my drawing work. I’m busy seven days a week, literally. Maybe eight days a week. [chuckling] CBC: Was your father’s passing as sudden to you both as it was to the comics community? Adam: Yes, it was. It was very sudden. He had been feeling tired for three days… well, he was going to an already-scheduled doctor’s appointment. Andy: Dad wasn’t feeling well, but he already had a doctor’s appointment, and if he hadn’t had that appointment, I was going to bring him, because he was feeling tired and wasn’t himself. He was usually a very energetic and outgoing guy, so we all noticed a slowdown. He never complained about anything. You had to ask, “Hey, you okay? Are you all right?” And he’d say, “I’ll be fine. I’m fine. Don’t worry about me.” Anyway, we got him to the doctor and the doctor said, “Joe, we’re going to send you to the hospital emergency room.” So I went with him. We took him to Morristown Memorial. His doctor’s office is right across the street. He was in there for… [to Adam] how many weeks…? Adam: Three weeks. Between the time he was admitted and the time he passed away, it was a total of three weeks. When he went in there, they found things wrong with him. It started with him being very, very tired because of renal failure. Renal failure caused by multiple myeloma. Andy: That’s what the doctors eventually found out. Initially they couldn’t figure out what it was. Adam: Yeah, they didn’t know, at first. But his renal failure… this is how strong a guy he was: he had only one working kidney and it was functioning at five percent when he was admitted. Chris: Was this a tumor? Adam: No, it wasn’t a tumor; it was blood cancer. Myeloma is basically blood cancer. Andy: It affects kidneys. Adam: It affected his kidneys and, through that three week process and test after test, he went on to dialysis, did chemotherapy, and he had some heart issues. Prior to that, he had high-blood pressure. Andy: Right. Adam: So there were some heart issues with being in dialysis. Andy: He had the blood pressure under control, though. Adam: He couldn’t make it through a whole session of dialysis. It was difficult for him. It Right: Courtesy of Ervin Rustemagic and his Strip Art Features (SAF), this photo of Joe Kubert was snapped during Joe and Muriel’s visit to Sarajevo, Bosnia, in 1990. It was here, in the walled city of Dubrovnik — the “Jewel of the Adriatic” — where Joe and Ervin conceive of their first publishing collaboration, the threevolume Abraham Stone. Ervin, of course, was the subject of Joe’s 1996 graphic novel Fax From Sarajevo. Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

The Making of a Master of Sequential Art Ye Ed’s 2006 interview with Joe Kubert for the Will Eisner film documentary

Between 2002 and ’07, Ye Ed and his brother Andrew D. Cooke compiled — with an able team of filmmakers — a full-length feature film documentary on the life of one of the greatest comic book creators of them all, Will Eisner: Portrait of a Sequential Artist, which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2007. On August 19, 2006, a most brilliant, clear and sunny Saturday morning, Joe Kubert consented to a filmed interview at The Kubert School to discuss his upbringing, graphic novels, Jews in comics, and his friend and colleague Will Eisner in particular. What follows is a transcription of that talk, obtained with the tremendous help of the movie’s editor and executive producer Kris Schackman and transcribed in record time by Steven “Flash” Thompson, Andrew added his own questions to the discussion. Comic Book Creator: Where were you born, Joe? Joe Kubert: Poland. CBC: Whereabouts? Joe: Southeastern section of Poland. A town called Yzeran. CBC: When did you move to the United States? Joe: I was brought to the United States when I was two months old. In fact, my mother and father had come to Southampton, in England, in preparation to be coming to the United States. However she was pregnant at the time, with me. They would not permit her to come on the boat. She had to go back home, to the small town in Poland, give birth to me, and then came to the United States. CBC: A true bundle of joy. Joe: A bundle of… whatever. [laughs] CBC: Where did you grow up? Joe: I grew up in East New York, in Brooklyn, and the reason was, of course, that my mother’s family were residents there. They met us. They met my mother, my father, my older sister and myself at the boat and brought us home. Their

Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

Below: Will Eisner’s “Shop Talk” segment featuring his 1982 chat with his one-time employee Joe Kubert was published in Will Eisner’s Spirit Magazine #40 [Apr. ’83] and the actual audio recording of the talk is featured as an extra — along with all of Will’s “Shop Talk” interviews with fellow professionals — on Ye Ed and Andy’s WE:POASA DVD and Blu-ray.

Conducted by Jon B. Cooke CBC Editor

Above: In mid-summer 2006, Ye Ed and his brother Andrew D. Cooke, soundman/editor Kris Schackman, and cameraman Ben Tudhope visited The Kubert School to interview Joe for their full-length feature film documentary, Will Eisner: Portrait of a Sequential Artist. Here’s a screenshot of Joe in the movie. A transcript of that talk follows.

home was in East New York. In Brooklyn. CBC: How would you characterize the neighborhood where you grew up? Joe: Well, the neighborhood at that time in East New York was, I guess, great as far as I’m concerned. As far as I was concerned as a young kid, it was fine. I had a bunch of friends that I hung with, used to play a lot of ball… Things were good. It was during the Depression, the early days of the Depression. I don’t ever remember being hungry. I don’t ever remember being poor. It was fine. CBC: What was the ethnic makeup of that area? Joe: The ethnic makeup of that area was essentially Jewish. I think that there was a tendency for most people who came to any of the areas to move in with those people with whom they felt the most comfortable. So there were Italian neighborhoods, there were Jewish neighborhoods, there were black neighborhoods, and so on. CBC: What was the economic situation in your family during the mid-’30s? Joe: Well, the economic situation, in retrospect, was not too hot. In the late ’20s and the early ’30s, it was very, very difficult to make a buck. I guess that’s probably where I was most fortunate because, despite the fact that a primary purpose in all families to make sure that the kids would be able to make a living was to get them an education where they could become a doctor or a lawyer or a mechanic or a carpenter or anything that you could make a buck at. But to draw pictures? [laughs] That’s nuts! ’Cause you’ll never be able to make a living drawing crazy pictures. Yet my father, and what I mean when I say I was lucky, both my father and mother recognized the fact that I loved to draw from the time I was a kid! They always encouraged me. They always helped me and did everything that they could to make sure that I did that which they recognized I loved the most. CBC: Specifically, what did you want to do for a living, for a career as a youngster? Joe: Well, the idea of making money at what I was doing was probably as far removed from my conscious as I can imagine. I started drawing when I was two years old. I used to draw with chalk in the gutters. It was macadam, smooth macadam, and it took chalk beautifully. It’s been my experience that anybody who can draw is looked upon almost as a magician so that, when a young kid of three or four was drawing pictures, all the neighbors would come out and look at the stuff that was being done, buy more penny chalk with which to draw! But the idea of making a livelihood at it was completely and totally remote. It was only later on when I

From Comics To Graphic Novels

Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

was going to junior high school, just finishing grammar school, from the eighth grade to the ninth grade, comic books were staring to come out. I always loved the comic strips in the newspaper. I never thought of the probability or possibility of my doing that kind of work. I didn’t know what it was about. [laughs] I didn’t know how you made that kind of transition from drawing in the gutters to drawing for the newspapers. But, pre-high school, I happened to come across some friends of mine whose relatives were involved with MLJ, the precursors of Archie Comics. This is when comic books started to come out in the late ’30s, early ’40s. And they saw the drawings I was doing. As I said before, the fact that you could draw is looked upon by others as a piece of magic. It’s… just drawing pictures. That’s all! [laughs] And this friend of mine with whom I went to school said to me, “Well, you know, Joe, my uncle (or cousin) is involved in this business. Why don’t you take some of your drawings up and show him? Maybe you could get a job doing it.” Well, at the age of 11 or 12, I said, “Why not?” I put a bunch of drawings that I had done on pencil, paper, stuck it into a batch of newspapers and with a nickel took a subway into New York from east New York, went up to Canal Street, where MLJ was located and brought ’em up and showed ’em my work. That’s what started me. ’Cause the guys up there were so kind, were so helpful. I knew nothing about the material to be used. I knew nothing about the paper or ink or anything like that. [laughs] And they gave me the paper. They gave me the paper with which to work. They gave me the brushes, the ink, the pencil. They showed me the size of the paper that it should be, which is larger, of course, than the printed material. And it was from that time on that I knew this was what I wanted to do. I can still, to this day, remember the smell of that place when I went in there. It was a dusty… There was paper, there was ink, there was erasings… It was all of those things mixed up together and I can still recall that smell! CBC: Can you describe specifically what a shop looked like? Joe: Well, the first shop that I’d gone up to was, of course, MLJ as I’d mentioned. [laughs] I’ll never forget it. It was on probably the third or fourth floor of a building that faced Canal Street. When you came in, there was a low railing about three or four feet high, and beyond that railing were the guys who were working, lined up against the window at their art tables. And again, Above: Centerspread from Limited Collectors’ Edition #C-29 [1974]. A six-foot enlargement of this double-page spread adorns Joe Kubert’s as I had mentioned before, they allowed school office-slash-studio wall. Tarzan, of course, was a favorite of Joe’s and his comic-book adaptations remains virtually unequaled.

Irwin Hasen: The All-American Cartoonist Michael Aushenker looks in on the beloved Golden Age artist and Dondi cartoonist by Michael Aushenker CBC Associate Editor

Last fall, when Comic Book Creator caught up with veteran cartoonist Irwin Hasen, he had just emerged from the hospital a few days prior. Despite some setbacks, which had included a bout with pneumonia, the resilient Hasen at 94, retained a twinkle in his eye and a quick, succinct wit. Of course, Irwin was a good friend of Joe Kubert, sharing with his late compadre — and the legendary Alex Toth, for that matter — the distinction of having the same tremendously influential mentor during the 1940s (as well as Irwin being a Kubert School instructor in its earliest days). A product of American comics’ Golden Age, when immigrants and children of same filled the assembly line-ranks of the fast-emerging company specializing in producing a new product called comic books, the Jewish artist, now under the watchful eye of a nurse at his Upper East Side apartment, reflected back on his decades-long career, particularly his two most memorable characters: an over-the-hill, wash up-cum-super-hero and a young, fresh-faced Italian kid. Hasen admitted that running the latter, Dondi, a daily syndicated comic strip saga in the tradition of Little Orphan Annie, was a much smoother ship to steer than his ’40s comic-book assignments. “With Dondi, it was easier,” Hasen explained. “I knew it was all about. I knew the kid.” With impish, staccato bursts of conversation often punctuated by a chuckle, Hasen recounted his tale.

Born on July 8, 1918, Hasen entered a nascent comic book industry in 1940 with barrels blazing, contributing to The Green Hornet and “The Fox.” A year later, the artist began working under aforementioned mentor, the seminal editor Sheldon Mayer, drawing features including “Green Lantern” and “The Flash,” and other super-hero features All-American Comics (sister imprint of DC Comics) raced to pump out in the wake of the massive success of DC’s Action Comics and Detective Comics. At DC, Bill Finger, co-creator of Detective’s breakout feature, “Batman,” had a hand in the inception of Hasen’s other trademark character. “[Finger] created Wildcat with [Mayer],” Hasen explained. “Sheldon was my best friend. He knew me before I got into comics. I worked in the fight business for a magazine called Bang magazine. I worked for him. After Bang magazine, I did gag cartoons and the painted covers.” Mayer designated Hasen to become the first artist to interpret Wildcat, a grizzled pugilist in a catsuit; a sort of prototype of Marvel’s Wolverine. With Hasen on pencils, Wildcat first appeared in Sensation Comics #1 [Jan. 1942] as Ted Grant, a boxer entangled in the underworld who dons a costumed alias to go clear his name after he is framed. The character would go on to became a member of the venerated Justice Society of America, the Golden Age super-hero group Hasen would also render in the pages of All-Star Comics, another Mayer title. “It was a good character,” Hasen said blithely of the feline crimefighter. “It was my milieu. I was raised in the fight business when I was a young kid.” Comic books were not a bad way to earn some income. “It was a living at that time,” Hasen said, but the job didn’t last into the new decade. Yet, by 1955, the artist’s fortunes improved — dramatically. Hasen’s marquee climbed to great heights as one-half (the other fraction being writer Gus Edson) of the team that crafted the long-running syndicated newspaper strip Dondi. “Comic strips were eventually where I was going in my life,” Hasen said. “When I was six, I saw the greatest strip ever made: Roy Crane’s Wash Tubbs. My parents came home with the newspaper, the World Telegraph. I loved the simplicity.” Hasen admitted that drawing Dondi was much more facile than his comic book assignments.

Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

Sheldon’s Other Boy portrait by seth kushner

Previous page: Above is a detail from the cover of the first volume collecting Dondi, published in 2007 by Classic Comics Press. Bottom is a commission piece of the Justice Society of America, featuring characters our interview subject rendered under the tutelage of legendary comics editor Sheldon Mayer. Below: All-American Comics #40 [July 1942] cover by Hasen, featuring The Green Lantern and Doiby Dickles.

Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

“Yes, with Dondi, it was easier. I knew it was all about, I knew the kid,” Hasen repeated. Working with their Chicago Tribune Syndicate editor, Moe Reilly, Edson and Hasen embarked on their Dondi adventure, and Reilly helped keep things together, as Hasen said he did not find Edson to be a most ethical collaborator. Edson, Hasen explained, was a colorful man, to say the least. The cartoonist, who had worked on The Gumps strip for 24 years after creator Sidney Smith died, did whatever he wanted, including marrying characters in the strip who had already wedded to others years earlier during Smith’s tenure… and persisting even after sacks full of reader mail arrived at his syndicate pointing out continuity errors. In the early ’50s, with future Academy Award-winning actor Martin Landau (Space: 1999, Ed Wood) as his assistant, Edson traveled through Europe participating in a National Cartoonists Society USO tour to entertain U.S. servicemen. It was after a visit to West Germany when an idea sparked in Edson’s head, a concept that would become Dondi. “He sent me a drawing on Waldorf-Astoria stationary,” Hasen remembered. “When we get back to the States, this is the idea we had. I looked at it and I said to Gus, ‘Let’s do it!’” The first strip made the newspaper on Sept. 25, 1955, and would continue for 31 years. In the first decade, Edson and Hasen occasionally butted heads, but Dondi proved a hit. Hasen received the NCS’s Reuben Award in 1961 and ’62 for his work. The duo were active and social within NCS circles, where Hasen developed new relationships. “My favorite friends were Walt Kelly and [sports cartoonist] Willard Mullin,” he said. 73

In the Trenches

Day In & Day Out: Working with Joe Kubert Joe’s right-hand man Peter Carlsson talks about his friend and employer

Above: Joe Kubert (left) and his trusty Kubert School/Tell-A-Graphics associate Peter Carlsson, in a photo taken at P.C.’s wedding on July 25, 2009. Courtesy of Peter.

Below: The Our Army at War cover by Joe Kubert that terrified — and yet compelled — young Pete Carlsson, #270 [July ’74], his first memory of seeing his future friend’s work.

Conducted by Jon B. Cooke CBC Editor [This special Kubert tribute issue was, it likely goes without saying, a pretty extensive undertaking. Ye Ed had to coordinate any number of aspects, particularly the testimonial section, where yours truly wrangled contributors to meet deadlines, etc., all the while maintaining his full-time job in advertising. It’s had its moments! But one uplifting constant was the pleasurable collaboration with our next interview subject, Peter Carlsson, who runs Tell-A-Graphics, the art production outfit in the basement of the Kubert School, which provides employment for students and alumni by producing the comics and illustrations of P*S magazine, among other jobs. Peter is also curator of the Joe Kubert art archives and was a friend of the late creator. He is also a die hard Kubert fan, as excited by Joe’s work now as when he was a funnybook reader back in the day. This interview was conducted by phone on Mar. 19, 2013, and was transcribed by Steven “Flash” Thompson. Peter copy-edited for clarity and accuracy.] Comic Book Creator: What’s your general background, Peter? Peter Carlsson: I came to New Jersey in 1993 to go to the Kubert School. I went through all three years, graduated in ’96. After school, I worked part-time at the art store and part-time at Tell-A-Graphics. Then part-time in New York City at Mada Design, a graphic design company run by Stan Madaloni, a guy who went to the school, and his wife, Angela. I worked there for a year. I don’t remember exactly how all this happened. I had met Adam while in school and ended up organizing his art files the summer after graduation and that, I think in part, led to Joe offering me a full-time job working in part at Tell-AGraphics and also organizing the artwork he had in his office at the School and the artwork he had in his studio at the house. There were just piles upon piles of envelopes full of artwork. It had been organized at one time, but by the time I started much of it was in disarray. I spent a couple years going up there once or twice a week, organizing things, and getting a sense of what he had and putting together an inventory of his artwork.

CBC: Joe was known for keeping all of his work? Peter: Yes, he was, but my understanding is that he didn’t begin keeping the art until DC started returning it, which I think was in the early ’70s. Joe really didn’t have much from the ’40s, ’50s, and ’60s, just an occasional piece, a cover or an interior page. But, starting in the early to mid-’70s, when DC started the policy of returning artwork, then he had most of that stuff. I wouldn’t say it was complete because he’d sold stuff and things sometimes disappeared, I guess. But he retained the vast majority of the art he did from the ’70s on. He lived in the same house that he built in the ’50s. The house had been there for almost 50 years, and he kept his studio in the house. He told me not moving is the reason he had cover sketches going all the way back to the 1950s. These were sketches he did and then he would write “completed” and the date on the paper when he drew the actual cover. That’s one of my favorites: finding all these envelopes full of old sketches. CBC: Were there other surprises that you found in the archives? Rarities? Unique material you had never seen? Peter: Oh, yeah! All the Redeemer material that finally saw print in Joe Kubert Presents. Three issues penciled, inked, and lettered. Just sitting on a cupboard shelf! Pencils, very loose pencils, for a few pages from the fourth issue. A lot of notes and part of a cover painting he was gonna use, things like that. An issue of something called Centipede, which was based on an Atari game! You probably remember that video game. CBC: Yeah. Peter: DC published an Atari Force comic back in the mid’80s — I think there might have been one or two other things that came out but for some reason… maybe sales, I don’t know — Joe’s Centipede story never saw print. He had all the originals. CBC: Wow. How big is the Centipede story? A full issue? Peter: I think it was between 17 and 20 pages. CBC: Wow. Peter: Yeah. No one’s seen it! Do you remember, in the ’80s, he did that Superman and the Demon story in DC Comics Presents? CBC: Oh, good heavens, that’s a beautiful issue! Peter: [Laughs] Well, I found the pencils to that! He redrew it! So there’s a whole issue of finished pencils, but then Joe decided, for whatever reason, he wasn’t gonna ink them. He actually redrew and inked the whole thing! CBC: Wow! Peter: Yeah, just weird stuff, stuff that I think you and I — and everybody reading this probably — would be interested in, but I don’t know who else would be. CBC: [Laughs] Who cares? [laughter] Obviously, you’re there. You’re mesmerized with the work. You’ve been there since... You’re going on 20 years now? Peter: No. Twenty years in New Jersey but I started working for Joe full-time in ’97. CBC: Ninety-seven. All right, that’s still a few years, Pete. Joe was one of those rare artists who just always getting better. Always innovative, always pushing himself… Peter: Right. CBC: It’s just astonishing to see the arc of his work from the ’40s in these leaps and bounds of the evolution within his style up to the very end! I mean, he always held me rapt, you know?

Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor  Comic Book Creator Tribute

Peter: Oh, I totally agree. His style changed over time. It got, I guess, “coarser” maybe? I remember him mentioning how he wished he had a younger set of eyes on occasion just to be able to see the lines a little sharper. But, yeah, you could see that there was a simplification of between what he was working on last spring and the Tor stuff published by Epic, there’s a fineness to that line that he wasn’t doing anymore, but it didn’t matter because he was still able to grab you and not let you go. There’s the saying about opening up a Joe Kubert comic and suddenly find yourself reading it no matter where you start, no matter what the story was. You can’t help yourself! You just start reading. CBC: I’d never heard that before, but that’s absolutely true. Peter: Yeah. CBC: [Laughs] Completely captivated right from the word go! There’s a picture of me when I must be five or six years old and I’ve got a Joe Kubert comic in my lap! I remember Joe Kubert comics as a youngster! I don’t remember much else. In general, I can remember Richie Rich, I can remember characters, but few artists at that age… But I remember Joe’s comic books. Peter: Yeah, I know what you mean. I didn’t read much of the war stuff. I don’t think my mom wanted me to, you know? But do you remember DC had those house ads that had like six or nine black-&-white thumbnail-sized covers? Back in the early ’70s? As a little kid looking at that and just trying to glean information from the cover images, get whatever I could out of looking at Joe’s covers… sometimes they would scare me. And I remember which one it was in particular. There was a drawing of a hand in the foreground and Sgt. Rock was gonna shoot some guy and somebody else in the background was like, “Ya can’t shoot him, Rock. It’d be murder!” And I was like, “Murder! Oh, my God!” [laughter]

But it pulled me in! It took me years to track down that comic. I think I know what you mean by comparing a Richie Rich comic and a Joe Kubert comic. Joe’s comics were so unique, they were like a line of comics unto its own. Remember the treasury edition of The Bible? Or the oversized Tarzan? Again, I’m thinking more back to when I was a kid, the stuff that was coming out in the ’70s, but… even though they were very different stories, they were Joe Kubert comics. CBC: I think that was a very exciting time and it was very exciting for Joe, too! Of course having the Tarzan franchise, you know, following up Hal Foster, Burne Hogarth, and Russ Manning, and doing these fantastic adaptations of Edgar Rice Burroughs stuff… But also the double-page splashes on pages two and three, and not being afraid to throw a fullpage splash page in the middle of a particular fight scene between a jaguar and the Lord of the Jungle. Peter: Yeah, yeah! And you wonder how much of that was done because of expediency. [laughs] “Okay, I gotta get this issue done. I’m gonna put a splash page here.” But he was movin’ quick. He was movin’ fast and he was relying on instincts that he had built up over 30 years at that point! Thirty years of storytelling. So, like I said, a splash page in the middle of a fight scene? It worked despite the fact he probably did it to get it done because he had to move on to the next job. It still worked! CBC: He delivered! He absolutely delivered. Peter: He absolutely did. CBC: There’s really just something about him that I can’t just put my finger on. I talked to his sons and to so many people about it and that is that he never looked down at what he was doing. He always looked up! He always gave whatever he was doing his absolute best. It seems to me that he never phoned a job in. I can’t find anything that Joe gave his

Comic Book Creator Tribute  Joe Kubert: Creator & Mentor

Above: The Redeemer #1 spread, as colored by Ervin Rustemagic’s Strip Art Features [SAF], hues which differ from the art’s appearance in Joe Kubert Presents #2. Courtesy of Ervin.