Issuu

Roy Thomas’ Savage Comics Fanzine

SWORD-ANDSORCERY IN THE COMICS PART TWO

6.95

In the USA

No. 83

PLUS:

82658 27763

January 2009

Vol. 3, No. 83 / January 2009 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Circulation Director

Contents Writer/Editorial: Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers . . . . . . . . . 2 The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Bob Brodsky, Cookiesoup Productions

Tom Lammers on the Lee-Maneely creation—with a sidebar on a plethora of Black Knights!

Cover Artist

Wally Wood, that is—crafter of early Marvel sword-and-sorcery sagas—by Richard J. Arndt.

Arthur Suydam

With Special Thanks to: Terry & Kay Allen Heidi Amash Richard J. Arndt Rodrigo Baeza Jean Bails Alex Bialy Dominic Bongo Frank Brunner Rich Buckler Joe Carroll Lynda Fox Cohen Teresa R. Davidson Tony DeZuniga Eda Lisa Edwards Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ron Frantz Janet Gilbert Andreas Gottschlich Bob Greenberger Lawrence Guidry George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck David Hamilton Jack C. Harris Heritage Comics Archives Roger Holda Rafael Kayanan Jim Korkis Alan Kupperberg

Thomas G. Lammers Dominique Leonard Mark Lewis Jim Ludwig Glenn MacKay Dennis Mallonee Todd McFarlane Brian K. Morris Will Murray Barry Pearl Joe Petrilak Rubén Procopio Ken Quattro Gene Reed Charlie Roberts Bob Rozakis Anthony Snyder Ronn Sutton Arthur Suydam Mark Swayze Dan Tandarich Carl Taylor Dann Thomas Michael Tiefenbacher Dr. Michael J. Vassallo John Wells Barry Windsor-Smith Joseph Wise Alex Wright Bernie Wrightson

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens

A Sword of WOOD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Conan Before The Bronze Age . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 Will Murray relates how Robert E. Howard’s Road of Kings led straight to Marvel Comics.

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]… Than Spider-Man!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Roy Thomas talks—yes, again—about REH’s Hyborian hero... to Jim Amash, this time.

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”. . . . . . . . 38 And they won’t be—if MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards has anything to say about it. (Part II)

“We Should Form A Club Or Society…” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Chapter 6 in Bob Rozakis’ Earth-22 “Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc.”

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Are They Kidding? . . . . . . . . . . 63 Michael T. Gilbert and some of the nuttiest things comics creators ever tried to get away with!

Comic Fandom Archive: Found! “New” Photos From The 1965 New York Comicon! (Part 2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 Bill Schelly presents more recently-discovered vintage pics from the Jerry Bails collection.

Tributes To Jerry Serpe & Dave Stevens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 re: [comments, corrections, & correspondence] . . . . . . . . . 76 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #142 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .79 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze & Ron Frantz’s memories of Jerry De Fuccio. On Our Cover: This stunning painting by Arthur Suydam—who caused a sensation last year with his powerful covers for Marvel Zombies—portrays a barbarian upon a usurped throne. But is it Conan—or Kull—or another hero of sword-and-sorcery fiction? It matters not. Thanks to Arthur for allowing us to use this art—previously seen only on a poster done a couple of years ago for the DragonCon in Atlanta, Georgia—as our cover! See the whole illo on p. 35. [©2009 Arthur Suydam.] Above: With Barry Windsor-Smith putting so much work into early Conan comics, Roy T. gladly purchased rights to various sketches he had done to give Barry extra income—and Marvel more work by Barry! Savage Tales #2 (1973), with “Red Nails” up front, utilized the above pencil drawing as the heading for an article—whether or not Barry originally intended it to specifically represent the Cimmerian swashbuckler. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $88 US, $140 Canada, $210 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Of Thieves, Reavers, And Slayers S

eems like only yesterday—and not nearly half a year ago, which it actually is—that we were prepping the first of our several “Swordand-Sorcery in the Comics” issues, for Alter Ego #80. (That eldritch edition is still available from TwoMorrows—see ad bloc on pp. 89 ff.—hint, hint!)

This time, we examine the phenomenon which, we must admit, we immodestly consider the epicenter of the s&s comic book earthquake of the 1970s—namely, Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, as launched by Yours Truly as scripter (and de facto editor) and Barry Windsor-Smith as artist extraordinaire. Even before Conan, though, Marvel had flirted with that genre—as witness the short-lived but legendary Black Knight series by Stan Lee and Joe Maneely in the mid-1950s, and several stories written and drawn by Wally Wood right before the Cimmerian first unsheathed his four-color broadsword. (At the last minute, sadly, we had to delay Richard Arndt’s study of Charlton’s proto-s&s comic Hercules until our third special foray.)

RI, back to Chicago, without missing a beat…while Dann and I journeyed first to Missouri to visit my mother (and to attend my [gulp!] 50th-year high school class reunion), then to New York for a Big Apple comicon. Now, we’re all settled in again… and ready to start on A/E #84 and to get back to work on The All-Star Companion, Vol. 4 (and final!), due out this summer. Who was it said “No rest for the wicked”? Probably Dorothy Gale. Bestest,

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Sure, we could cram our entire sword-and-sorcery history into just a couple of issues, but that would rob you—and me—of the pleasure of Alter Ego’s regularly scheduled contributions by the likes of Michael T. Gilbert, Bill Schelly, P.C. Hamerlinck, and Bob Rozakis—not to mention Jim Amash, who this time around completes his in-depth interview with MLJ/Archie artist Joe Edwards. And we were bound and determined not to miss a second letters section in a row! Of course, there’ve been a few behind-the-scenes dramas, as well… for life goes on, and not just in bordered panels or in musty old comics. Between A/E #82 & #83, layout guru Chris Day moved from Providence,

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

COMING IN MARCH

STEVE SKEATES On Thin Ice! How The Writer of AQUAMAN, HAWK & DOVE, Et Al., Took The Silver Age Plunge! • Previously unseen Aquaman cover by JIM APARO! • STEVE SKEATES on his comics scripting from 1965 through the early ’70s, for DC, Marvel, Charlton, & Warren—from Aquaman to Sub-Mariner to Plop! (The late ’70s onward will be covered in Back Issue #33, a couple of weeks later!) • Skeates-related arts & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD—& the great WARREN SPAVIN! • TV writer CHARLES SINCLAIR talks about Batman co-creator BILL FINGER— and JIM AMASH listens! (And so will you!) • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, & JERRY DE FUCCIO, Part II— MICHAEL T. GILBERT on “Twice-Told EC”—BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive—BOB ROZAKIS’ “Secret History Of All-American Comics”—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS Comics, [Aquaman TM & ©2009 DC

Inc.]

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $88 Standard, $120 First Class (Canada: $140, Elsewhere: $210 Surface, $230 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

The Swords And The Sorcerers part one [continued from Alter Ego #80]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer Second In The Author’s “Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series” by Thomas G. Lammers While hardly pure “sword-and-sorcery,” Marvel’s five 1955-56 issues of Black Knight were the nearest thing to it published by Timely Comics before the tail-end of the 1960s and Conan the Barbarian in 1970. There is no true wizardry in the series except that of Merlin the Magician, which consists primarily of a far-seeing crystal ball and the ability to ensorcel a sword into the enchanted Black Blade. Morgan le Fey, who is a witch in the original Arthurian legends, appears in the series but performs no magic. Still, this is the closest that Stan Lee, major architect of the Marvel Universe, came to writing the genre developed by Robert E. Howard, whose roots go back, of course, to an earlier tradition on which, in part, REH drew. —RT.

he age of knighthood long has been a favorite setting in Western literature, and the best known character in such stories is the legendary King Arthur. The earliest accounts of his life are found in the 9th-century Historia Brittonum and the 10th-century Annales Cambriae, where he is described as a Romano-British chieftain killed during the Battle of Camlann in 537. Most of the familiar elements of Arthurian legend—Camelot, the Knights of the Round Table, Merlin the Magician, Queen Guinevere—come not from these sketchy historical accounts but from subsequent romanticized sources, beginning with the 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Arthurian legend has been portrayed in virtually every medium, from scholarly treatises to Hollywood blockbusters to video games. It is not surprising that Timely/Atlas/Marvel publisher Martin Goodman got in on the action as well, placing The Black Knight on the nation’s newsstands in early 1955. This was his first and only entry in the knights-in-shiningarmor genre, if one overlooks the 34-page cover story “Richard the LionHearted” (job #4358) in Ideal Comics #4 (Jan. 1949). Goodman is best remembered as a trend-chaser, not an innovator. Whenever he brought out a new title, it was almost always in response to his perception of what was “hot” for other publishers. However, comic books set in the days of chivalry were rather scarce in the early 1950s. Toby Comics had produced their own The Black Knight in 1953, but it lasted only a single issue. EC’s Valor had debuted two months before Goodman’s new title. However, these “New Direction” titles were widely perceived as an act of desperation by publisher Bill Gaines, necessitated by the dictates of the new Comics Code Authority. As such, it seems unlikely that Goodman was influenced to any great degree by the appearance of this title, either. No other publishers had comic-book titles in this genre. What then was the impetus for The Black Knight? Looking at other popular media of the day, it seems most likely that Black Knight had a cinematic raison d’etre. The year 1954 saw a spate of costume dramas set during the Age of Chivalry. The first of these (released on January 15) was Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer’s Knights of the Round Table, which starred Robert Taylor and Ava Gardner, with a script based on Sir Thomas Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (1485). This was followed on April 5 by Prince Valiant, starring Robert Wagner and Janet Leigh in a 20th Century-Fox adaptation of the popular Hal Foster

newspaper strip—which featured James Mason as a villainous, secretidentitied Black Knight. On August 7, Warner Bros. released King Richard and the Crusaders starring Rex Harrison and Virginia Mayo, while Universal Pictures’ The Black Shield of Falworth, starring Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh, debuted on September 2. The red griffin in flight on Curtis’ black shield does bear considerable resemblance to the red eagle in flight on the Black Knight’s. It was the last of the 1954 releases that may have been particularly influential in Goodman’s decision: Columbia Pictures’ The Black Knight, [Continued on p. 6]

“The Timely/Atlas/Marvel Biography Series”

Black Knights ’Round The Table The images on this and the opposite page illustrate the precursors, competitors, and latter-day equivalents of the Atlas hero. “Black Knight” has long been a popular name, indeed—and we’re sure we didn’t catch nearly all of them. (Clockwise from top left:) (Below:) More Fun Comics #73 (Nov. 1941). In the same month the Classic Comics rendition debuted, a villainous modern-day Black Knight strikes— but with newsreel photog Johnny Chambers in the picture, can the superfast Johnny Quick be far behind? Script credited to Mort Weisinger, pencils to Ed Moore, inks to Chad Grothkopf. Thanks to John Wells for the scan. The whole issue was reprinted in one of DC’s Millennium Editions—and John adds that several 1936 issues of More Fun featured the Richard/BK version in a serialized adaptation of Ivanhoe. [©2009 DC Comics.]

(Above:) Classic Comics #2 (Nov. 1941) - Ivanhoe. Ed Ashe of the Lloyd Jacquet/Funnies, Inc. shop is generally credited with drawing Gilberton’s first adaptation of Sir Walter Scott’s 1820 novel. However, as per William B. Jones, Jr.’s, excellent study Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations, comics historian Hames Ware “confirmed that Ashe was responsible for a relatively small number of panels,” with fellow shop-artist Ray Ramsey doing much of the work. Back in England, of course, the Knight will reveal himself to be King Richard the Lion-Hearted, home from the Crusades. [©2009 First Classics, Inc., by permission of Jack Lake Productions, Inc.]

Rip Hunter… Time Master #16 (Sept-Oct. 1963). This Black Knight was one of “The Criminal League of Time” in a full-lengther written by Jack Miller and illustrated by Bill Ely. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superboy #103 (March 1963). Edmond Hamilton wrote, Curt Swan penciled, and George Klein inked this three-parter. Oh, and this Black Knight turned out to be Merlin the Magician! Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

Superman #124 (Sept. 1958). This “Black Knight,” supposedly brought back to life after 1000 years, turned out to be Daily Planet editor Perry White, disguised by the Man of Steel to trick a felon. Art by Al Plastino; scripter uncertain. Thanks to John Wells. [©2009 DC Comics.]

The Black Knight: Atlas’ Arthurian Adventurer (Left:) Ernie Schroeder’s cover for Toby Press’ The Black Knight #1 (1953). There was no sorcery in this one-shot comic about a knight returning home from the Crusades to find evil raging in his own land, as related in John Wells’ keystone article for this series in Alter Ego #80. As seen in the lead splash printed three issues back, the only “sorcerer” in sight was a druid who exploited peasant superstitions. The Toby mag’s logo closely foreshadows that of the Marvel/Atlas title. Thanks to Mike Tiefenbacher. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

(Above:) Four Color #567 (June 1954). This comic probably went on sale circa April, and adapted the 20th Century-Fox film Prince Valiant released that month, based on Harold R. Foster’s long-running Sunday comic strip. The movie starred Robert Wagner as Val, Janet Leigh as Aleta, and James Mason as Sir Brack, alias the evil Black Knight. The Dell/Western mag was scripted by Paul S. Newman and illustrated by Bob Fujitani. Thanks to Jim Ludwig & Gene Reed. [©2009 the respective copyright holders; Prince Valiant TM & © King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

(Right:) Movie star Alan Ladd in a “still” from MGM’s The Black Knight (1954). This movie—whose title hero may or may not have owed anything to the only slightly earlier film from 20th, as well as to a 1952 Ivanhoe film—continued the concept of a secret-identity Black Knight, but made him again a hero instead of a villain. It was probably a more direct ancestor of the LeeManeely concoction than anything in the four-color medium, its plot having many echoes in Atlas’ BK comic book. Thanks to Bob Bailey. [©2009 MGM, Inc., or its successors in interest.] (Above:) Classics Illustrated #2 – Ivanhoe. This 1957 re-adaptation by CI/Gilberton of the novel was drawn by Norman Nodel; scripter again unknown. Thanks to Jim Ludwig. [©2009 First Classics, Inc.; by permission of Jake Lake Productions, Inc.]

The Swords And The Sorcerers part three

Conan Before The Bronze Age How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics by Will Murray A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: It’s a bit tricky to relate the story of sword-and-sorcery in the comics without either dwelling overmuch on the importance of Marvel’s Conan—or slighting the mags in which he appeared—in order to play up other, lesser-known examples of the genre. For that reason, in our coverage of the genre three issues ago, John Wells only touched on Conan the Barbarian and its black-&-white sister titles Savage Tales and The Savage Sword of Conan. This time, we’re making up for it with two pieces—first this overview by Will Murray, to be followed by Jim Amash’s interview with Ye Editor. Some repetition between the two is unavoidable, but we’ve done our best to avoid any more déjà vu for the reader than we can help… and a few pre-1970 forebears are only mentioned in passing because of #80’s coverage. But Will has dug up some vintage quotes by Gil Kane, Roy Thomas, and others which add flesh to the bones of the story, and in one or two cases even suggest a slightly different sequence of events than Roy remembers. Rashomon lives! Now, onward….

f any single event signaled the end of the Silver Age of Comics, it was publication of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian in the summer of 1970. Although it didn’t happen overnight, Conan’s comics advent marked the beginning of the end of Silver Age super-hero dominance. A new age was dawning. The Bronze Age.

While the barbarian hero didn’t hail from the Bronze Age of mankind, but from the mythical Hyborian Age of a pulp writer’s creation, Conan’s time period was so similar to the era when bronze was the dominant metal that it’s eerily appropriate that he later came to symbolize Marvel’s Bronze Age. Conan the Cimmerian was created by Texas pulp writer Robert E. Howard back in 1932. He first appeared in “The Phoenix on the Sword,” in the issue of the magazine Weird Tales for December 1932. There must have been something in the air that Depression month, for Fran Striker’s Lone Ranger was being created at the same time, while Erle Stanley Gardner and Lester Dent were writing the very first Perry Mason and Doc Savage novels in the weeks leading up to Christmas ’32. Howard’s less heroic character careened between being a thief, mercenary, and pirate, finally becoming King of Aquilonia in the

The Man And The Myth One of Roy Thomas’ personal favorite issues of The Savage Sword of Conan was #200 (Aug. 1992), which he wrote not long after he returned to scripting the Cimmerian’s exploits. The story segued back and forth between an archetypal Conan saga and the events of Robert E. Howard’s creation of the hero in early 1932 as related in his letters—with the latter episode veering off into a fantasy adventure in which REH found himself in trouble with dangerous drug smugglers on the Texas-Mexico border. Roy had tried to sell Marvel on doing “Barbarians of the Border” as a graphic novel; when that failed, he settled, with the blessing of editor Mike Rockwitz (who had engineered his return to the barbarian at the turn of the ’90s), for a black-&white magazine version, in tandem with John Buscema (layout penciler) and Ernie Chan (finisher/inker). [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

How Robert E. Howard’s Road Of Kings Led To Marvel Comics

“There was a strange outfit called Triangle that specialized in fantasy fiction,” artist Gray Morrow recalled to Comics Scene. “They were printing a lot of Robert E. Howard’s stuff and were doing poorly with it. They decided to see what could be done with Conan in comic book form. I had never heard of Conan before, so they gave me Howard’s ‘Tower of the Elephant’ and told me to come up with a comic based on it. It was the first appearance of Conan in comic book form. The problem was they never printed the comic. I got paid for it, but today, it must be sitting on a shelf somewhere getting moldy.” Triangle published TV Guide and Seventeen, but no known fantasy or comic books. Two obscure 1953 digests, John Raymond’s Fantasy Tales and Space Science Fiction, did reprint Howard. Morrow may have been referring to them. No doubt the institution of the Comics Code killed the project. Conan languished after that. Or so it seemed in the USA. South of the

“Phoenix” Rising The world’s very first visual glimpse of Conan the Cimmerian was in the above illustration by Jayem Wilcox for “The Phoenix on the Sword,” printed in the Dec. 1932 issue of Weird Tales pulp magazine. It was the only artwork that appeared with that first published “Conan” adventure. [©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.]

later years of his tumultuous life. Conan’s meteoric career ended when Howard committed suicide in 1936, but the Cimmerian refused to expire. Often reprinted, he was never totally forgotten. He seemed like the perfect fodder for comic books. So why it did take until 1970? Actually, as related in more detail in Alter Ego #80, the long Road of Kings to comic books started back in 1950, when Avon published three pseudo-Conan strips featuring a primitive hero called Crom the Barbarian in Out of This World Adventures and Strange Worlds. Authored by Gardner Fox and drawn by Weird Tales artist John Guinta, it was a shameless attempt to co-opt Conan, whose favorite oath was “Crom!” That same year, Gnome Press released the first of their hardcover Howard books, Conan the Conqueror, which planted the seeds of a major mainstream Conan revival of the ’60s. It’s no coincidence that Avon reprinted Howard pulp stories in their Avon Fantasy Reader. Only three or four years after the Avon “Crom,” with comics suffering from a horror backlash and dogged by Congressional investigations, Conan came within an inch of taking the Atom Age of Comics by storm.

All Elephants Are Gray In The Dark Ages Though no art from Gray Morrow’s reported full-length 1953 comic book adaptation of “The Tower of the Elephant” has ever turned up and it indeed may no longer exist, that exceptional artist did this illustration for The Savage Sword of Conan #7 (Aug. 1975). Or had he done it some time before and simply sold Marvel rights to print it in conjunction with a history of swordand-sorcery fiction written by Lin Carter? In fact, we can’t be 100% certain the sword-wielder shown above was originally rendered to be Conan rather than a generic barbarian. Still, it’s tempting to muse on an entire early Conan comic drawn in a somewhat earlier version of this style. At left, Gray autographs a copy of Warren’s Creepy magazine at John Benson’s 1966 New York Comicon; with thanks to Bill Schelly and photographer Jack C. Harris. [Art ©2009 the respective copyright holders; photo ©2009 Jack C. Harris.]

Conan Before The Bronze Age

The book trembled on the edge of extinction. In an effort to eject new interest, Stan was pushing for guest-starring the company’s version of the Norse thunder god, Thor, and Thomas figured he’d have to acquiesce. “We might have made him dressed more primitively,” he explained in Comic Book Artist #2, “but, yeah, Thor would’ve been in there because we would’ve been trying to save a book we cared about.” However, at a crucial point (starting with issues #8-9), sales improved. Then, in a weird twist of fate, Barry Smith soon moved on, and the book finally fell to Gil Kane. “I took over with #17 and did two issues,” Kane told The Comics Journal. “They were very hard to do; there was a million crowds, a million riots and everything. One was inked by Ralph Reese and the other by Dan Adkins. They both turned out pretty well. But it was hard! I felt that I was working on Prince Valiant material! I couldn’t do three or four pages a day on that stuff, so I gave it up after two issues... I just couldn’t do it fast enough, though I was given it to be the regular artist. Then Buscema took over.” Actually, Barry returned for half a dozen issues before Buscema was piped aboard. But finally, with issue #25, Roy Thomas was working with his original artistic choice. “I loved it from the very beginning,” Buscema admitted in Comic Book Artist. “I was disappointed when they didn’t give it to me from the beginning.... I would have preferred doing Conan my entire life. I would rather have worked on Conan all my years at Marvel than that super-hero stuff.” Conan the Barbarian only grew in popularity in the years that followed, spawning in a final irony a pair of black-&-white magazines, Savage Tales and then Savage Sword of Conan, in the early ’70s. Gil Kane’s original vision had miraculously came to pass. Freed from the constraints of the Comics Code, Thomas could at last let Conan be Conan.

What If Conan The Barbarian Spoke French? One of the few John Buscema/Roy Thomas collaborations done for color comics in the 1970s-80s that hasn’t been reprinted by Dark Horse is “What If Conan the Barbarian Walked the Earth Today?” from What If? #13 (Feb. 1979). In that tale, the Cimmerian winds up in New York City during the big power blackout of February 1978. The Buscema/Chan cover is re-presented here from a vintage French reprint. RT had Big John add the partlyglimpsed Star Wars poster because at least one early authorized publication put out in conjunction with that 1977 blockbuster film had referred to it as “sword-and-sorcery.” Roy and his then-ladyfriend Danette, now-wife Dann (who was used as the model for the modern-day heroine inside the mag) own the original artwork for this cover. [Cover art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC; Star Wars TM & ©2009 Lucasfilm.]

“Conan was a switch on the super-hero,” Thomas once observed. “Conan, while he didn’t have any super-powers, was quite superior. It was more like Captain America with a sword. We had a lot of trouble [with the Comics Code Authority].” Roy Thomas scripted Conan for ten years in various titles, and after he moved on to DC, sheer momentum—and the two 1980s films starring Arnold Schwarzenegger—carried the Marvel version clear to the year 2000—a 30-year triumph. It was a triumph no one could have anticipated. “I think that Conan strikes a deep chord in people,” Thomas explained in FOOM, another Marvel-produced fanzine, “and touches greatly on hidden fears we all have of the unknown and the unknowable. The character in part represents a desire to have enough strength to cut your way through anything, like the old Alexander the Great solution to the Gordian Knot. You don’t try to untie it; you just take your sword and whack the hell out of it, cut it in two, and then go on to something else.”

The Swords And The Sorcerers part four

“Conan Was Probably Making More Money For [Marvel]… Than Spider-Man!” ROY THOMAS Talks—Yes, Again— About Howard’s Hyborian Hero Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: Having written numerous times about the early days of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian and Savage Sword of Conan magazines, especially the former, for afterwords in Dark Horse’s Chronicles of Conan trade paperback series, and having spoken about it in part in interviews in A/E #50 & #70, I asked associate editor Jim Amash for ideas on an approach this time around. Jim nimbly came up with questions, I think, which both cover the familiar-to-some ground that needs to be covered, plus a few angles which haven’t been explored before. Between Jim’s interview and Will Murray’s article which precedes it, we hope we’ve covered all the barbarian bases… mostly accompanied by art not recently reprinted by Dark Horse Comics. —Roy.

“I Never Tried Reading [Conan] Again For A Couple Of Years” JIM AMASH: When did you discover the Conan character? ROY THOMAS: In ’65 or ’66, Conan the Adventurer came out, so I would have been in my middle 20s. The first Robert E. Howard paperback I ever bought—though I didn’t know Roy Thomas (photo) and one of the jewels of his and Dann’s original art collection— “Jewels of Gwahlur,” that is. Artist Nestor Redondo gifted him with this original color prelim for his cover painting for The Savage Sword of Conan #60 (Jan. 1981), which illustrated the L. Sprague de Camp/Lin Carter story “The Ivory Goddess,” a sequel to Robert E. Howard’s “Jewels of Gwahlur.” That issue became the last of 60 in a row scripted (and edited) by Roy, as certain Marvel powers-thatwere held back his five remaining black-&-white “Conan” tales, already completed, in order to break his run on the book for petty reasons one can only guess at. Those five were printed in SSOC #66-70. [Art ©2009 Conan Properties International, LLC.] This photo of Roy was taken for a newspaper in his hometown, The Jackson [Missouri] Journal, for Sept. 23, 1970—a month or so after Conan the Barbarian #1 went on sale. At that time, he had no idea that, decades later, that would be one of the comics for which he is most remembered—or how major a character Conan would become for Marvel! Back then, he couldn’t even have spelled “Arnold Schwarzenegger”! Roy and then-wife Jeanie were visiting his parents, after flying from New York to St. Louis to attend an Elvis Presley concert.

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten” Part II Of Our In-Depth Interview With JOE EDWARDS, Writer & Artist Of Archie & Li’l Jinx Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

ast issue, the late Joe Edwards (1921-2007) spoke primarily about his early days at Archie Comics, when the company was called MLJ and had begun as a publisher of super-hero and adventure material. Archie Andrews, of course, came along in 1942 and, before long, changed everything—including the very name of the company! At the point at which we divided the interview, Joe was talking about how, when he started at MLJ in the early 1940s, he generally worked three days a week at the office, drawing the humor features that were increasingly becoming important to the firm, but had a lot of freedom, often being told simply give the editors “five pages… three pages… one page”… with the precise content left to his discretion. —Jim.

“The McClure Syndicate [Is] Where ‘Archie’ Got Its Springboard” JIM AMASH: Were you allowed to create anything you wanted? JOE EDWARDS: Because I could write, they gave me pretty much free rein. They would just say, “Give me three pages!” and you would bring in something that was different. Whatever it was, you’d bring in single pages, half pages. They needed stuff to fill the book. There was one—“Randy.” Does that ring a bell? It was very short-lived, but it was a strip with the kind of teenagers that [MLJ] was looking for. I just want to give you an insight into [comic book companies]. Publishers always loved to follow in somebody else’s footsteps. Now, John Goldwater realized in his infinite wisdom, that “Archie” was a good seller, so [he figured] let’s make “Wilbur.” In other words, he said, “Before the opposition gets going [copying our ideas], I want to be able to spin off my different characters. Maybe one of them would come to be profitable.” Case in point: when we started with Jughead, he was just a side character. Sam Schwartz took him and made him into a very [important character]. It was Harry Shorten who carried the ball. When Bob Montana and I went into the Army, MLJ went around to the newspaper syndicates to sell it. It didn’t sell right away, but [it was finally picked up by] the McClure Syndicate. That’s where “Archie” got its springboard. JA: So you think it was the newspaper strip that really made Archie popular in our culture?

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris EDWARDS: With McClure. The contract [stated that] if McClure didn’t bring in enough newspapers, which would mean so much money, by the end of a certain period of time which I forget now, the strip syndication would revert back to the Archie company. And McClure, in turn, could sell it to the next syndicate, which they did to King Features. That’s history. So McClure got the first crack at it, but they didn’t bring home the bacon. So when Bob and I were in the Army, Harry actually carried the ball, and tried peddling it himself. He was very instrumental in doing that.

Everything’s Archie! Joe Edwards is seen, some years back, giving an art demonstration at a school—and he was definitely qualified to give one! Below are the major characters he drew for Archie Comics during his decades in the field, from the Riverdale gang to Li’l Jinx. Art and photos accompanying this interview have been provided by Joe himself, and more recently by his widow Eda Lisa Edwards, via Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson. [Art ©2009 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

“[Early Comics Creators] Shouldn’t Be Forgotten”

and time. But so many times, I came in with “Gee, I got a terrific ending, but I don’t have a beginning.” [mutual laughter] If you look at the first cover of Archie, you’ll see Bumby, the Detective, the Bee-tective. That was one of the early things I created. One day, I came in with a story, and Harry said, “Joe, what are you doing?” I said, “The first page is blank, and the last page is this first page.” [mutual chuckling] Harry said, “How the hell did you figure that one out?” I said, “Harry, I did a little research.” I used to go to the candy stores where the comic books were sold, and I would watch the kids take the magazines and flip them. You know, open the book and scan the pages. They would come across something that would catch their eye. I thought, “That would be an interesting premise.” So when I was writing the story, I thought, “If I put a blank page in there, kids are going to stop.” When they flip the book, they would see a blank page, they would ask what happened. That was the psychology behind it. Anyway, I did it, I put a bill in, and I got called in by John Goldwater. John says to me, “Joe, we can’t pay you for a blank Strip Joint page.” I said, “Yeah, you can.” I was only 19 so I had a lot of A photo of Joe, taken a few years ago, holding a pair of Archie newspaper dailies chutzpah. So I says to John, “[It’s an] integral part of this story.” He on which he’d worked, with a framed “Li’l Jinx” page in the background. Thanks said, “How do you figure that?” Harry was sitting there at the time, to Eda Lisa Edwards. and Harry knew what was going to happen. So I told John the Bob and I worked together on the strip. I’d come in, we’d have lunch story, he just sat there like I hit him with a two-by-four. He turned to with Harry, and we would talk about it. All three of us kicked ideas Harry and said, “Harry, have Joe put something on the page, but pay him around. Harry said to me, “You know, you did animation. Why don’t you for the blank page.” [Jim laughs] This was when I was young and bushyput the animation in the book, and work with Bob on stories and see what tailed. But I told you the psychology behind it. To me, that was part of you can do?” writing material, to find out what the motivation was. I learned it the hard way. A lot of the writers had to learn it, but a lot of them don’t know how JA: How much of a writer do you think Bob Montana was? You were a to develop an idea. Harry would show us some of the things. Harry was a real writer. You could sit and do a plot, beginning, middle, and end with good writer; he could look at your work, and [suggest changes]. He never appropriate punchlines and all. Was Montana that kind of writer, too? said to me, “That’s no good.” He would say, “Let’s see if we can do something with it.” In other words, he didn’t hit your ego, and that was EDWARDS: Yes, we both seemed to work off of each other. Harry important. Shorten was the one who guided us. He was our mentor. I remember we’d either come in Thursdays or Fridays with written material not nailed down, an idea that was bugging our brains. “I have an idea. I think it could be an ‘Archie‘ story.” One word led to another and Harry would say, “Why don’t we try it this way? Why don’t we try it that way?” Harry would train us to think a certain way; a beginning, middle, and end. Sometimes we would start with the middle; sometimes, we’d start with the end; and sometimes, the beginning. And sometimes, it all fell together 1-2-3. That came with experience

Passing The Hatlo Jimmy Hatlo’s popular daily panel They’ll Do It Every Time (this one consists of two pictures) regularly paid “a tip of the Hatlo hat” to readers who sent in ideas, as in the 1957 example at left. Above is the originally imitative but successful rival panel There Oughta Be a Law, written by Harry Shorten and drawn by Al Fagaly—also, in this instance, a two-pic gag. If there was ever an artist named Whipple associated with the latter feature, as Joe observes, we didn’t find a sample of his work. [They’ll Do It Every Time panel ©2009 King Features Syndicate, Inc.; There Oughta Be a Law panel ©2009 McClure Syndicate or successors in interest.]

Joe Edwards, Writer & Artist of Archie & Li’l Jinx

Sidebar by Eda Lisa Edwards:

was married to Joe for 63 years, and we were together 24/7. In a sense I was also married to “Archie,” since he was such a part of our everyday life. Joe wrote, drew, and inked the work. We collaborated on scripts, using much material from our own kids. I became the “Dear Abby” of the Archie world, answering letters from kids all over the globe. I went through the tons of mail that was sent to us by Archie Comics and answered as many as the page permitted. Joe did the lettering.

Many of the letters were problems perceived by teenagers and younger who saw similar boy-girl problems they read about in the comics. Betty and Veronica were real to them. Some of the letters were quite humorous, and some were rather sad, particularly those from children living in poor countries. The girls wanted to have clothes like Veronica was wearing. It was an enjoyable time, and to add a small bonus, our son collected many foreign postage stamps from the letters received. Judging from the huge stack of mail, I can say it was very successful at that time.

have the same face. All we did was change the hairdo and hair color. So all it is are tricks that we used, but became part of the Americana. We were happy doing it because it was creative. Thank God, I can look back and say it was the few businesses or industries where people will recognize what you did 60 years ago, and at the same time, love what you did, and have good words that made them happy. Any business that can make a person happy is very good; and when you’re very young, with all the doubts and fears that one has when growing up, you’re not sure about yourself. Archie filled that gap. I’ve always felt that I’ve been a very lucky guy to be able to get the gift of writing and at the same time be able to put down on paper what I felt. But I want to thank you. The reason I want to thank you is because, for a long time, I’ve felt that all the cast of characters [early comics creators] that we’ve discussed should have been put down in some form for posterity. They were a tremendous, tremendous influence on the youth of our day and I think still to this day, and I think that they shouldn’t be forgotten. So that’s what I wanted you to know.

JOE EDWARDS Checklist [NOTE: The following Checklist is primarily adapted from information that appears in the online Who’s Who of American Comic Books (19291999), established by Jerry G. Bails. See ad on p. 36 to learn how to access this invaluable website. Names of features which appeared both in magazines with that title and in other magazines, as well, are generally not italicized below. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer.] Name: Joseph Edwards (1921-2007) (writer, artist) Pen Name: Joe E. Education: Rome Academy; Hastings Animation School Influences: Walt Disney; Will Eisner Print Media (Non-Comics): artist – advertising; artist – posters for children’s cassettes; writer – 1980 The Guardian – Ancient (humor) [sic] Commercial Art & Design: children’s apparel; video – Land of I 1982 Comics In Other Media: gag cartoons (w)(a) for various publications; Leisure Acres (w)(a) 1980 in Retirement Village Humor Comics Studio/Shop: Demby Studio (w)(p)(i) c. 1937 [NOTE: Joe Edwards reported this was “before Superman,” but that is doubtful] Syndication: Archie comic strip (a) (dates uncertain, though possibly for both the McClure Syndicate and later King Features Syndicate)

the Bee-tective (w)(a) 1942-45; Captain Sprocket (w)(a) 1963-68, 1981-82; Charley Hoss (w)(a) 1974-83; Chimpy (w)(a) 1943-44; Coach Kleats (w)(a) 1986; covers (p)(i)(a) 1966-71; Cubby the Bear (w)(a) 1942-45; Dilton (w)(a) 1985; Gigi (w)(a) 1975, 1979-82; Greg (w)(a) 1977, 1981; Hot Dog (w)(a) 1984; house ads (w)(a) 194386; illustrations (a) 1978-84; It Shouldn’t Happen to a Dog (a) 1942; Judge Owl’s Fables (w)(a) 1943-43; Jughead (w)(a) 1985; Leroy (a)(a) 1984; Li’l Jinx (w)(a) 1946-83; Life with Archie (w) 1985; Mad House (w)(a) 1976-82; Midge (w)(a) 1984-86; Miss Beasley (w)(a) 1986; Miss Grundy (w)(a) 1984-86; Moose (w)(a) 1985; Mort (w)(a) 1978-81; Mr. Lodge (w)(a) 1984; Mr. Sevensen (w)(a) 1984; Mr. Weatherbee (w)(a) 1984-85; Pinky (w)(a) (no date); Pop Tate (w)(a) 1984; Prof. Transistor (w)(a) 1963, 1976; puzzle pages (w)(a) 1976-82; Randy (w)(a) 1975; Reggie (w)(a) 1984; Roz (w)(a) 1979, 1981; Russ (w)(a) 1976, 1980-82; Sabrina (w)(a) 1964; Squoimy the Worm (w)(a) (no date); Super Duck (w)(a) 1960; Tales Calculated to Drive You Bats (w)(a) 1962; Wilbur (w)(a) 1951-56 Dell/Western Publications: cartoon/funny animals (w)(a) c. 1941 Eastern Color Printing: Friendly Fox (w)(a) 1943; Victor, Vegetarian Vulture (w)(a) 1940

COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers): Archie Comic Publications, Inc./MLJ: activities pages (w)(a) 1964; Ali Baba (w)(a) 1964; Alice (w)(a) 1964; Archie (w)(p)(i) 1943-89; Archie and Me (w)(a) 1966-71, 1976-80; Archie’s Madhouse (w)(a) 1961-67; Archie’s TV Laugh-Out (p)(i) c. 1984; Betty (w)(a) 1986; Bumbie

Marvel/Timely Comics: cartoon/funny animals (w)(a) 1941; Heathcliff (w) 1985, 1987 (for imprint Star)

hat if, instead of selling his share of All-American Publications to DC co-publishers Harry Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz in 1945, as happened in the Real World, Max Charles Gaines had instead bought DC Comics from them? Just imagine…a comic book industry in which (due to threatened lawsuits by Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and Bob Kane, which resulted in there briefly being two competing versions of “Superman” and “Batman” titles on the newsstands in the late ’40s with both versions eventually

being cancelled) the characters Green Lantern, The Flash, and Wonder Woman had instead become the surviving Golden Age heroes—stars of comic books, radio, movies, and TV! (Even so, in our world, all art on the next page features characters trademarked and copyrighted by DC Comics.) Not a dream (precisely)… not a hoax (exactly)…just an Imaginary Tale of an alternative universe and of…

The Secret History of All-American Comics, Inc. by Bob Rozakis

Book One – Chapter 6: “We Should Form A Club Or Society…” [NOTE: The material in this chapter appeared in somewhat different form in Dynamic World of AA Comics #3, as part of “Strange Schwartz Stories,” written by Bob Rozakis and Ted Skimmer.]

ith the success of the new Superman, DC editor Julie Schwartz was given the go-ahead to revive another Golden Age character. It was not much of a surprise when he decided that the second member of AA’s Silver Age roster would be a new incarnation of Batman.

“I never paid much attention to the original version of the character,” Julie said in a conversation about the revival. “He was just an ordinary man who went swinging around the city beating up criminals. He had his batrope and a few things in his utility belt, but that was it.” In the early discussions with writer John Broome, Schwartz emphasized his desire to give their new Batman a greater element of science-fiction. “I’ve always been a science-fiction man, so I wanted our new version to be able to have outer space adventures.” When Broome suggested they play up the utility belt and that Batman could pull just about anything he could think up out of it, Julie said, “That’s too magical.” “Not if it is able to access a cosmic energy source via black hole technology,” countered Broome. “The things Batman thinks up aren’t really in the belt. He’s able to tap this cosmic energy and form that into what he needs by his own willpower.” When Schwartz demanded that Batman had to have some kind

Batting Around The Order Julius Schwartz (editor, top) and John Broome (writer) flank the Gil Kanepenciled cover of Showcase #22 (Oct. 1959), which introduced AA’s more science-fictional Batman to a new generation—a “New Look” version, as it were. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, from the collection of Shane Foley. Photos courtesy of the Julius Schwartz Collection (with special thanks to Bob Greenberger) & Don Ensign.

Alter Ego #83