Alter Ego #74 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ STANdard Comics Fanzine

STAN LEE ’Nuff Said?

Well, If We’ve Really Gotta Drop A Few More Names To Hook You, How About— KIRBY! KIRBY! DITKO! DITKO! ROMITA! ROMITA! BUSCEMA! BUSCEMA! COLAN! COLAN! HECK! HECK! AYERS! AYERS! KANE! KANE! SEVERIN! SEVERIN! TRIMPE! TRIMPE! TUSKA! TUSKA! WOOD! WOOD! MANEELY! MANEELY! SHORES! SHORES! EVERETT! EVERETT! BURGOS! BURGOS! (There! (There! That Oughtta Hold Ya!) Characters TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.

No. 74

December 2007

In the USA

6.95

PLUS:

Vol. 3, No. 74 / December 2007 Editor Roy Thomas

Stan Lee’s 85th Birthday Special!

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Chris Irving

Circulation Director Bob Brodsky, CookieSoup Periodical Distribution, LLC

Cover Artist Jack Kirby

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

With Special Thanks to: Michel Maillot Gerry Acerno Nancy Maneely Heidi Amash Don Mangus Ger Apeldoorn Mike Manley Dick Ayers Norman Mark Bob Bailey Jim McLauchlin Allen Bellman Dr. Jeff McLaughlin Jon Berk Jean-Yves Mitton Al Bigley Brian K. Morris Dominic Bongo Frank Motler Mike Bourne Will Murray Jerry K. Boyd Steve Ogden Susan Burgos Barry Pearl Mike Burkey John G. Pierce Leslie Cabarga Rubén Procopio Nigel Cartwell Richard Pryor Gene Colan John Romita Rich Donnelly Marie Severin Danny Fingeroth Joe Simon Shane Foley Joe Sinnott Ron Frenz Paul Smith Chris Fricke Anthony Snyder Janet Gilbert Frank Springer Ron Goulart Marc Swayze Mike Grell Stan Taylor Arnie Grieves Jennifer Hamerlinck Greg Theakston David G. Hamilton Art Thibert Dann Thomas Richard Howell Herb Trimpe Geof Isherwood Pete Tumlinson Jay Kinney George Tuska The Jack Kirby Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Estate Dr. Michael J. Robert Klein David Anthony Kraft Vassallo Mike Wellman Stan & Joan & Joan Cecilia Lee Ted White Dominique Léonard Mike Zeck Jay Maeder

Contents Writer/Editorial: He’s “The Man”!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Stan Lee Meets [Castle Of] Frankenstein . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Ted White introduces his important 1968 interview with Marvel’s head honcho.

The New Super-Hero (Is A Pretty Kinky Guy) . . . . . . . . . . . 16 1968 Lee interview from the pages of Eye Magazine, conducted by Norman Mark.

Stan Lee, The Marvel Bard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 A 1970 talk—Smiling Stan and marveling Mike Bourne.

Stan Lee: 1974. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 Jay Maeder’s classic conversation with Marvel’s master from Comics Feature.

Marvel Characters Meet Their Maker! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 The comic book cameos of Stan Lee, compiled by Jerry K. Boyd.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Twice-Told Marvel Heroes (Part Two) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 Michael T. Gilbert and Will Murray on the pre-Marvel Iron Man and Thor.

“Once [Stan Lee] Put Me On Staff...” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 Jim Amash talks to Golden Age artist Pete Tumlinson.

FCA (Fawcett Collectors Of America) #133 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 Marc Swayze’s Judi of the Jungle & John G. Pierce on Captain Marvel’s Christmas. On Our Cover: There simply was no other choice for the cover artist of this issue celebrating Stan Lee’s 85th birthday! Jack Kirby was Marvel’s major artist (and artistic influence) from Fantastic Four #1 in 1961 until he split in 1970—and he was vitally important to Marvel both in 1940-41 and when he returned in the mid-’70s, to boot! This art was prepared on behalf of Toys for Tots, a charity Marvel supported every Christmas season for some years. With thanks to John Morrow and the Jack & Roz Kirby Estate. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: The legacy of Lee and Kirby was alive and well in the 1970s and early ’80s, which is probably when Marvel artist Ron Wilson penciled this powerful drawing—quite possibly for a Marvel-UK cover. Sorry a bit of it was missing from our photocopy, but we still think it’s great! Thanks to Anthony Snyder. [The Thing & Absorbing Man TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $78 US, $132 Canada, $180 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

He’s “The Man”! Y

ou’d think that, for me, a guy who’s worked for him and/or with him for much of the past four decades, putting together an 85thbirthday tribute to Stan Lee would be as easy as falling of a log.

Wrong, Inedible Bulk-breath! I have every bit as much of a problem doing a “Stan Lee issue” of a magazine as any other editor might, and for the same reason: Stan has been endlessly interviewed over the past several decades—and he tends to answer the same questions with similar words and phrases. (And how could he not? Unless you’re making up new “facts” as you go along, there are only so many ways you can spin what is basically the same story. It’s really the fault of the interviewers, who keep asking the same questions over and over—but, of course, for the most part they’re merely asking the queries they feel their readers will want to know the answers to. It’s only us jaded “experts” on things comicbooky—and that includes a goodly percentage of those reading these words— who sigh and say to ourselves, “We’ve heard all this before!”) I’ll admit—for just a little while there, I dared hope I might be able to get a fresh new interview out of Stan. After all, a number of folks had told me they felt I’d been able to elicit some previously unknown information when we had the conversation recorded in Jon B. Cooke’s Comic Book Artist (Vol. 1) #2 way back at the turn of this century. But I’d pretty much shot my wad on that one—so my new idea (well, actually, it was A/E associate editor Jim Amash’s notion) was to do a Stan Lee interview that wasn’t about Stan Lee. I would ask him about all the writers and artists and editors and such-like that he’s worked with over the years, and see if I could mine a few anecdotal nuggets that way. Sure, Stan’s memory is famously just this side of a mental sieve, but with a bit of nudging, I might have been able to come up with a few raw diamonds. Stan, however, just didn’t feel he could devote time or energy to such a project, either over the phone or via e-mail. So that was that.

planned to get tributes from the usual suspects (and probably a few unexpected folks, as well)… the John Romitas and Joe Quesadas of the world… and to print a lot of rare stuff from the Stan Lee Archives, now safely stored at the University of Wyoming. So I decided to concentrate on a handful of previously published (but still hopefully rare) interviews with the Smiling One, and add a few anecdotes where I could in the captions. Now, right before you plunge into Interview-Land (whose landscape will be lovingly littered, of course, with exciting and often rare artwork by the greats and near-greats of Timely, Atlas, and Marvel), here’s a short piece which I myself wrote in 1968, about three years after I came to work for Stan. It was scribbled hurriedly (overnight, I seem to recall) for the program book of the SCARPCon convention… and I felt thrilled and honored to be the guy asked to write it. It’s called, logically enough:

Stan Lee by Roy Thomas What is a Stan Lee? Many things… not a few of them paradoxical, if not downright contradictory. An editor much given to belittling his own editing skills... but who can deftly improve a Shakespearian turn-of-phrase written by an ex-English instructor, a couple of sometime journalists, and an experienced movie scripter… among others. A writer who has long since disavowed any attempt to impose his special writing style on others… but whose style is so strong that it generally does its own imposing. A bearded non-hippie who has been lauded by conservative publications for his firm anti-radical bias… and who has been toasted by more liberal scribes for his New Left leanings.

A dynamo of energy who doesn’t mind taking a short vacation trip… as long as it’s Somewhere along the line, I by train, so that he can write a few extra also learned that our pages of Spider-Man en route. TwoMorrows sister publication Write Now! was going to do its A self-declared non-artist whose own Stan Lee issue, in honor of ability to draw even a straight line that selfsame 85th birthday—which falls has been hotly debated… but who on Dec. 28, 2007, just for can use a few scribbled the record. Now, you’d scrawls to show an artist Stan Lee Finds New Career As “Maskot”! think that would seem like something he should have competition—but, in point Believe it—there’ll be plenty of photos of Smiley in this issue! First, though, we decided— seen in the first place. with the help of artist Stan Foley—to draft Our Fearless Leader into duty as the super-hero of fact, it was a welcome called Alter Ego, who is also one of the “maskots” of this mag. The “Stan-face” is based, A devoted husband and relief! Editor Danny he says, on Marie Severin’s caricature in Fantastic Four #167 (1976). Thanks for making it father… who nonetheless Fingeroth had already happen, Shane! [Alter Ego TM & ©2007 Roy & Dann Thomas; art ©2007 Shane Foley.] manages to turn out more

writer/editorial

work each week than the several bleary-eyed bachelors who write for him. An accused grandstander who is supposed to have a tremendous, all-devouring ego… but who is genuinely moved when a parent calls up to congratulate him on the first issue of The Silver Surfer. A comics-industry figure since the early 1940s… who became an overnight success in 1961.

A mildly myopic perfectionist who pores over each month’s covers until the last detail of shading is correct… but who once failed to notice a figure of Captain America with a big white “A” on his chest. A fantastically busy executive who scarcely has time to speak to his own staff for days on end… then calls them in for the world’s most leisurely discussion, over a twin helping of cigars and sourballs. And, a Stan Lee is quite a few other things, as well…

An idealistic pragmatist who once spent a whole day laboring over four pages of “Forbush-Man”… but wrote twice that many pages of Thor by flickering candlelight on the night of the 1965 blackout.

…Including, most assuredly, a man who will vigorously disagree with at least half the things you just read about him.

A pragmatic idealist who had to let his other titles languish while he built up the super-hero line… then turned around and in two issues made Millie the Model one of Marvel’s best-selling titles. A businessman supposedly interested only in sales charts and circulation figures… who will delay an already dangerously late book for an hour so that somebody can correct a few lopsided word balloons.

That’s how I felt about Stan and his accomplishments in 1968—and you know what? It’s pretty much how I still feel. Maybe, like the old saying goes, no man is a hero to his valet… but for any human failings he may have (as we all do), Stan Lee is still someone I admire and respect… if anything, even more today than I did four decades ago, as I view those accomplishments more and more in perspective… and as I see them loom ever larger, not smaller, on the pop-cultural landscape.

A Long Island suburbanite who lives father away from Manhattan than most members of his staff… and who is almost invariably at the office before any of them.

So here’s to you, Stan! May you find the Fountain of Youth (if you haven’t already) and hang around for 85 more—and may I still be here to sing you “Happy Birthday!”

A not particularly frustrated actor who can talk like the Hulk till you expect him to turn green… or give an artist an entire synopsis over the phone in the most solemn tones this side of Churchill.

Bestest,

COMING IN JANUARY

FAWCETT & FRIENDS! • Sensational new cover by ALEX ROSS! • Special Double-Size FCA Feature! ALEX ROSS’ never-before-seen proposal for a Captain Marvel revival—C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE on the death of the World’s Mightiest Mortal—P.C. HAMERLINCK on “The Shazam Curse”! • MARVIN (Yellowjacket) LEVY—a Golden Age talent interviewed by JIM AMASH! • Nifty New “1943 Calendar”! This year, ALEX WRIGHT presents the fightin’ females not owned by DC or Marvel! • Australian fan JOHN RYAN remembered by South African fan JOHN WRIGHT & Comic Fandom Archive’s BILL SCHELLY! • MICHAEL T. GILBERT on the 1940s precursors of Marvel’s Giant-Man and Wasp! • Oh, yeah—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS © DC Comics.] [Shazam! characters TM &

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JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT ALL-STAR COMICS AND THE JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA!

Companion VOLUM E THREE

a.k.a. ALL THIS AND EARTH-TWO! Ed ited by ROY THOMAS • STILL MORE sensational secrets behind the 1940-1951 JSA! • Fabulous new JSA-JLA cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, drawn especially for this volume! • Spotlight on the 1963-1985 JUSTICE LEAGUE/ JUSTICE SOCIETY Team-Ups! The 1970s ALL-STAR COMICS REVIVAL! The 1980s YOUNG ALL-STARS!

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• Rare, often unpublished art & artifacts by CARMINE INFANTINO * JOE KUBERT * ALEX TOTH * JERRY ORDWAY * GIL KANE * RICH BUCKLER * JACK KIRBY * JULIUS SCHWARTZ * MICHAEL BAIR * IRWIN HASEN * MIKE SEKOWSKY * DICK DILLIN * JOE SINNOTT * DICK GIORDANO * MIKE GRELL * MICHAEL LARK * DON NEWTON * CREIG FLESSEL * SEAN CHEN * DON HECK * HOWARD PURCELL * H.G. PETER * SHELDON MOLDOFF * ARTHUR PEDDY * MART NODELL JOE GALLAGHER * BOB LAYTON * MARTIN NAYDEL * PAUL REINMAN MIKE W. BARR * JOE STATON * JIM VALENTINO * JOE GIELLA ROY THOMAS, and many others! • PLUS—THE SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY—JOHNNY PERIL— SHELLY MAYER’S RED TORNADO—the 16th-century progenitors of the JSA—the very first All-Star Comics #58— & MORE! 240-page TRADE PAPERBACK $31 postpaid in the US ($35 Canada, $43 elsewhere) ON SALE NOW!

Stan Lee Meets [Castle Of ] Frankenstein Interview Conducted by Ted White A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: This is one of the earliest Stan Lee interviews of substance ever done—which is only to be expected, since the 1965 interviewer was Ted White, a sophisticated science-fiction and comics fan. Ted’s early-1950s oneshot fanzine The Facts behind Superman was, as Bill Schelly writes in his 1997 book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, “one of the earliest known attempts to write an authoritative in-depth article about a comic book super-hero.” In 1960 he wrote the second installment of Xero’s innovative “All in Color for a Dime” series—and in the mid-1960s and after, he was becoming a published science-fiction author (Phoenix Prime, et al.) and would soon be the editor of the sf magazine

Titans In Triptych (Top right:) One of the most famous photos of Stan Lee is this one of Mighty Marvel’s hat-bedecked editor, which was taken in autumn of 1965 especially for the inside front cover of the new reprint mag Fantasy Masterpieces #1 (Feb. 1966)—and was spoofed by Shane Foley a couple of pages back. But nobody ever talks about who snapped this oft-reprinted pic! Though he was around at the time, Roy doesn’t recall, either, but he wonders—could it have been the one Marvel artist who then had his own photography studio—namely, inker Vince Colletta? Be that as it may, thanks to Bob Bailey for the scan. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Right) Because virtually all Stan Lee’s major work from the ’60s and ’70s is back in print—in trade paperback, in hardcover, or both—this issue of A/E features relatively few images from the original comics. We’ll concentrate instead on drawings by major talents of some of Stan’s most famous co-creations—starting with this threesome done a few years back by the fine French comics artist Jean-Yves Mitton. It’s a commission sketch executed for Belgian collector Dominique Léonard, who kindly sent us numerous pieces of art that’ll be seen herein. [Thor, Spider-Man, & Daredevil TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Above center:) Interviewer Ted White circa 1966, acting as auctioneer at an early comics convention. This photo originally appeared in Larry Ivie’s magazine Monsters and Heroes—later in A/E #58. [©2007 the respective copyright holders.] And is the Castle of Frankenstein cover (above left) the issue in which Ted's interview with Stan appears? The cover, which says "Interview with Marvel Comics" and sports a pic of Spidey, was printed in the 1968 SCARP-Con program book. [Spider-Man TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The New Super-Hero (Is A Pretty Kinky Guy) Spider-Men May Be OK For Fighting Crime, But Would You Want Your Sister To Marry One? by Norman Mark [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: This is one of the earlier articles that began to take comics, especially Marvel Comics, seriously in the postBatman-TV-craze, post-“camp” era, and we thought it worth reprinting almost exactly forty years later as an historical artifact— and a particularly lively one, at that. Reprinted from Eye Magazine (1968) by permission of author Norman Mark. With special thanks to Barry Pearl, Fearless Front Facer, for doing all the spadework on this one!]

ay comic book. Come on, say it. Comic book.

Feel silly, don’t you? You’ve got visions of all those cute animals jabbering and stealing carrots, of strange guys in tights and jockstraps flying through the air. Read a comic book on a bus and people stare at you: “Look, Randolph, he’s reading a comic book, isn’t that stupid?” Mention them at a party, and you’re suddenly alone in a corner. Talk to a kid who

reads them and he thinks you’re trying to pass for an adolescent. But that’s all changing, brothers and sisters. No longer will you read your comics with a flashlight under the bedsheets, no longer will you wait for the cover of darkness to put down your 12 cents for a costumed crusader epic. Comic books are surfacing, growing up, speaking out—maybe even becoming an art form!—and it’s time to take notice of them. One publisher at least, the Marvel Comics Group, is trying to raise this

Move Over, Gorgeous George And Honest Abe! Joe Sinnott, premier inker of the Lee-Kirby Fantastic Four and a fine artist in his own right, placed Stan the Man on Mount Rushmore in this gorgeous illustration. Hey, Joe—did you get that raise? (Just kidding! Joe’s one of the truly nice guys in the comic book field, as well as one of the most talented, and doesn’t need to kiss up to anybody! He still inks Alex Saviuk’s pencils on the Sunday Spider-Man newspaper strip, incidentally.) Thanks to Chris Fricke and Danny Fingeroth for the scan. Photo of Joe from 1969 FF Annual. [Human Torch TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2007 Joe Sinnott.]

The New Super-Hero (Is A Pretty Kinky Guy)

Man, the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Silver Surfer, The X-Men—twenty-two in all and all with their own special peculiarities and hangups. Stan Lee, the modern Aesop, is a tall, thin, bearded, bright-eyed, forty-five-year-old who lives on Long Island with his wife, 18-year-old daughter, and four dogs. He will feel his career in comics has been justified, he says, the day his wife “will go to a cocktail party and won’t be embarrassed when she’s asked what her husband does for a living.” That’s a simple, humble wish, well known to hairdressers, ballet dancers, and second-story men. But for Lee, it has not been easy to do. After graduating from DeWitt Clinton High School in the Bronx, he took a job writing obituaries for living celebrities at a news service. At seventeen [NOTE: Actually 18. —Roy], he went to work for Marvel Comics. An editor left and Lee took the job temporarily. He has been an editor ever since, except for service in World War II when he wrote training films and held the military classification of “playwright” (no kidding). “I had always considered comics a stopgap until I could find time to do better writing,” he says. “Finally, about eight years ago I realized I would be here for a while and why not make out of comics something I would like to read?” The problem was to create characters with some sort of superpowers—real comic book characters, no soap opera types. “If you had super-powers, how would you act in the real world. If you were young, wouldn’t you still have a case of acne, asthma, girl troubles, occasionally lose fights, or be broke?” So gut reality broke into funnies. Consider, if you will, Spider-Man, personality kid of comics. In reality, he’s Peter Parker, a normal college student who was bitten by a radioactive spider of human proportions [sic] sometime before October 1962. Now Peter has the strength of a spider of human proportions, but he still acts with all the bumbling ineptitude that you or I would display if we were in his tights.

Taking Up A Collection (Continued) Earlier this year, TwoMorrows published John Romita… and All That Jazz!, edited by Roy Thomas and Jim Amash, showcasing three major (and lavishly illustrated) interviews with this artist with the golden touch— whose photo is seen above right, from that 1969 Fantastic Four Annual. One of the many art spots in the popular Romita volume was John’s pencils for an unused Amazing Spider-Man cover in which The Avengers’ old foe, The Collector, tries to add no less than President Abraham Lincoln to his interstellar trophy room. Just to bring things full circle, here’s the finished version of that never-published cover, as inked by Joe Rubinstein. Retrieved for A/E by Dominic Bongo from the Heritage Comics Archives. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

media to the level of a James Bond movie, a Mission: Impossible television series, or a Perry Mason novel. That is not bad company for a form despised by parents and ignored by critics. It all started about seven years ago when Stan Lee, an editor at Marvel, decided to create a new line of super-heroes which would be more… relevant. For instance, Captain America (he, The Human Torch, and Sub-Mariner were earlier the company’s biggest sellers) changed from a simpleminded, patriotic do-gooder to a brooding super-hero who realizes his zeal for right is out of joint with the times. “He knows he’s an anachronism, but he can’t change,” says Lee. “He’s sort of a contemporary Hamlet.” A whole new team of antiheroes subsequently was created—Spider-

The people of his hometown, New York, do not trust him (would you want a spider living in your neighborhood?), the newspapers hate him, and he simply cannot cope with his uniform, which is constantly being torn in the line of duty and he has to stop and mend it himself. (What tailor could be trusted with his secret?) Also, his outfit is not drip-dry, and he is continually jumping into a wet suit, which gives him colds. He has trouble with his widowed Aunt May, who suffers a heart attack in nearly every issue. Sometimes Spider-Man has to give her a call in the midst of fighting bad guys. All of these things contributed to an inferiority complex that Peter has only recently controlled. But he still shows signs of paranoia, often has traumatic identity crises (he can’t tell anybody who he really is), has severe fits of depression, and feels terribly alienated. Spider-Man is the only comic book character in memory who has matured. Six years ago when Lee created him, he was a nudnick chemistry major with a skin problem; he was extremely unsuccessful with girls (who hate spiders) and bullied by other students. Today, he dates sharp blondes, he has become more muscular, and has a handsome, square-jawed face with no pimples. Early on, Spider-Man created a secret formula for steel-like webbing that adheres to buildings and helps him thwip (comic book for swing) around town. The webbing is also his most powerful weapon; he has been known to run out of it at crucial moments. Spider-Man’s chief nemesis is The Green Goblin, but he doesn’t [Continued on page 20]

Stan Lee, The Marvel Bard An Interview Conducted By Mike Bourne, 1970 [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: This conversation is reprinted from Changes magazine for April 15, 1970… and was likewise located for us by Barry Pearl, FFF. It is reprinted with permission of Mike Bourne.]

arvel Comics spring from modest Madison Avenue offices randomly decorated by oversize drawings, copy, and other assorted fanciful diversions. In several small cubicles, like freaky monks, a staff of artists variously evoke the next month’s adventures in all-brilliant color and style. While in his office, his complete Shakespeare close at hand, editor Stan Lee smiles broadly behind his cigar and beckons me enter his head.

MIKE BOURNE: With which super-hero do you personally most identify? STAN LEE: Probably Homer the Happy Ghost. You know, I honestly don’t identify with any of them. Or maybe I identify with all of them. But I’ve never thought of it. I’ve been asked this question before and I never know how to answer it, because I think I identify with whichever one I’m writing at the moment. If I’m writing Thor, I’m a Norse god at that moment. If I’m writing The Hulk, I have green skin and everyone hates me. And when I stop writing them, they’re sort of out of my mind. I’m not identifying with anyone. MB: You’re like an actor when you write. LEE: Yeah, I think more than anything. In fact, when I was young I thought I would be an actor, and I did act. And when I write now, my wife always makes fun of me. She says: “Stan, what did you say?” I say: “Nothing, I’m writing.” She says: “Well, you talk to yourself.” And I find very often I’m saying the lines out loud. And I’m acting! You know: “Take that, you rat!” MB: Asking a writer where he gets his ideas is like asking an actor how he learned all those lines, but Marvel is known as the House of Ideas. LEE: Only because I originally said we were the House of Ideas. MB: All right, but obviously you have mythological influences. And Jim Steranko’s “House of Ravenlock” for SHIELD was very much from the Gothic novel. But what are your primary sources, or your favorite sources for material? Just out of your head, or where? LEE: Mostly. I think it all has to do with things I read and learned and observed when I was young, because I don’t do as much reading or

Changes Are A-Coming—And A-Going! The front and back covers of the April 15, 1970, issue of Changes tabloid magazine—as preserved by Barry Pearl, FFF. (See, Barry—we promised you we’d refer to you by your old MMMS title—and now we can’t seem to break the habit!) The back cover Hulk drawing was, of course, penciled by Jack Kirby. [Art ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2007 the respective copyright holders.]

movie-going or anything now as I would like. I’m so busy writing all the time. But I was a voracious reader when I was a teenager. And actually, I think my biggest influence was Shakespeare, who was my god. I mean, I loved Shakespeare because when he was dramatic; no one was more dramatic than he was. When he was humorous, the humor was so earthy and rich. To me he was the complete writer. I was just telling somebody this morning who was up here to try to do some writing for us to get as close to Shakespeare as possible. Because whatever Shakespeare did, he did it in the extreme. It’s almost like the Yiddish theatre. When they act, they act! Or the old silent movies where everything was exaggerated so the audience would know what the mood was because they couldn’t hear the voices. So, actually, as I say, I used to read Shakespeare. I love the rhythm of words. I’ve always been in love with the way words sound. Sometimes I’ll use words just because of the sound of one playing upon the other. And I know comic book writers aren’t supposed to talk this way. But I like to think I’m really writing when I write a comic, and not just putting a few balloons on a page. MB: Do you consciously strive to catch the tenor of the times? You’ve covered campus protest in Spider-Man. But what about other issues? Do you feel that it’s your responsibility as an artist—and I

Stan Lee, The Marvel Bard

Now It Can Be Told! (Above:) The Marvel “super-hero” with whom Stan Lee most identifies (or at least did, back in 1970) is the title star of Homer the Happy Ghost, whose adventures were being reprinted in 1969-70. Seen here is Dan DeCarlo’s cover for issue #2 (May 1955). (Top right:) Stan and DeCarlo (photo of Dan above courtesy of Joe Petrilak) also worked together on My Friend Irma, My Girl Pearl, Millie the Model— and the Willie Lumpkin newspaper comic strip, whose hero would one day become the mailman for the Baxter Building in New York City. Note that the postmark at top left bears the date of the Sunday strip: June 12, 1960. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn. [©2007 the respective copyright holders.]

“Speak; Caesar Is Turned To Hear” Stan cut his eyeteeth writing “Shakespearean” (and related King James Bible/Arthurian) style in the first issue of Black Knight (May 1955), drawn by Joe Maneely—and perfected it in the mid/late 1960s and early 1970s in Thor. All the latter work is currently in print, so here’s a (wordless) drawing of the thunder god’s buddies Hogun, Fandral, and Volstagg, “Warriors Three,” reportedly by John Romita (pencils) and Jim Mooney (inks), done as a cover for a Marvel-UK mag—but Ye Editor isn’t at all certain that the Jazzy One actually penciled it. Thanks to Anthony Snyder. Photo courtesy of Nancy Maneely. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Stan Lee: 1974 Re-Presenting A Classic Conversation With Marvel’s Master From Comics Feature Magazine Interview Conducted by Jay Maeder A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Comics Feature was a professional magazine published for several years by the fabled Schuster brothers, Hal and Jack. Richard Howell and Carole Kalish, among others, cut their eyeteeth doing interviews for it, and even Ye Ed did a series for it for a time, since they’d let him write about anything he wanted to write about. This is one of several neglected Stan Lee interviews located for this issue by collector and archivist Barry Pearl, who contacted interviewer Jay Maeder. It is reprinted by permission—for which we thank Jay profusely. For his part, Barry says that the only thanks he wants for all his work on behalf Alter Ego #74 is to be recognized at last in print as an “FFF”—which stands, in the 1960s lingo of the Merry Marvel Marching Society, for “Fearless Front Facer.” You have now been duly recognized, Barry—please accept our sincerest gratitude for your Herculean efforts. Now on with the interview, in which Jay Maeder’s questions and comments were rendered in italics, with Stan’s responses in Arabic script—like so!….

here are probably worse things to be than the wildly celebrated king of the comics. I imagine you rather enjoy being Stan Lee.

And I must say I’m very happy that this has happened. It’s like achieving one of my goals, because I remember I wrote an editorial, it must have been a good fifteen years ago, and I said one of our main objectives would be bringing some additional measure of respect to comics, that I would consider myself and our company successful if we found a way before we were through this vale of tears to elevate comics in the minds of the public. So that if somebody said, I write comics, or I draw for comics, people would say, “Hey, really? Tell us about it.” And not say, “A grown man like you?” You know what I mean? So from that point of view I’m very happy now. How did you get where you are?

The Uncanny Excelsior!-Man Jazzy Johnny Romita—who else?—painted the cover of Stan’s 2002 autobiography Excelsior! The Amazing Life of Stan Lee, which was co-written with George Mair for Fireside Books, a division of Simon & Schuster. While Ye Editor (and others) feel the book should’ve been longer, fleshed out with more anecdotes and hard information about the comics, and profusely illustrated with Marvel images, what was presented therein was definitely the closest look ever at Stan the man (small “m”). The book revealed far more about Stanley Martin Lieber’s personal life than had any previous article or interview or unauthorized volume, and included numerous private photos (few of which are reprinted in this issue of A/E)—and that alone would make it a “must” for the bookshelf of anyone interested in the history of comic books. [Cover ©2007 Stan Lee & George Mair; super-heroes thereon TM & ©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

It wasn’t always this way, I must admit. In the first fifteen years or so that I was the head writer and editor at Timely and Atlas, I remember, my wife and I would go to cocktail parties and somebody would say, “What do you do?” and I’d say, “Oh, I’m a writer.” “Really? What do you write?” And I’d start getting a little nervous and I’d say, “Uh, magazine stories.” “Really? What magazine?” And I knew there was no way of avoiding it, and I’d end up saying, “Comic books,” and suddenly the person’s expression would change… “Oh, isn’t that nice,” and they’d walk away, you know, looking for some television or radio or novelist celebrity. That’s all changed now. I go to places and I’m held up as one of the more interesting celebrities… and people go over to the playwrights, you know, and say “Hey, I want you to meet Stan Lee, he’s the head of Marvel Comics, he made up Spider-Man.”

Sheer accident. I never wanted to be a writer particularly. As a kid I joined the WPA Federal Theatre. I wanted to be an actor. But there wasn’t enough money… and I always loved advertising, and the closest I could get to it was, I found a job writing copy for a news service, and then I started writing obituaries for people who were still alive, and I was writing publicity releases for the National Jewish Tuberculosis Hospital in Denver. All of which was pretty depressing. A million things, you know. I was an office boy for a trousers company, I was an usher at the Rivoli Theatre. Anyway, they had a contest at the Herald-Tribune [newspaper], an essay contest, which I won three weeks running, and whoever the editor was at the time called me and asked me to stop entering the contest. And he asked me what I intended to be. I was just out of high school, you know, and I said, well, I don’t know, an advertising man or an actor or a lawyer or something, and he said why don’t you be a writer?

Coincidentally, I learned of a job that was opening up at Timely Comics. They needed a gofer. Timely Comics then had Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, and they had just sort-of created Captain America, and they were doing “The Human Torch” and “Sub-Mariner,” and I came in, and before I knew it, they had me writing “Captain America” and

Stan Lee: 1974

Those Were The Days, My Friend (Left:) When Stan went to work for Timely Comics in 1941, Captain America was just under way and the company’s flagship title was Marvel Mystery Comics, starring “Human Torch” and “Sub-Mariner.” Marvel is currently reprinting the early issues of both mags, as well as Human Torch, Sub-Mariner, and other key titles—so we figured we’d toss in a design illustration a few years back by Sal Buscema (penciler) and Tim Townsend (inker) for a Universal theme park sculpture featuring Timely stars Torch, Namor, Cap & Bucky, The Vision, Miss America, The Angel, The Whizzer, and The Destroyer. The latter, incidentally, was the first major hero co-created by young Stan Lee. Repro’d from an image in a 2004 Heritage Comics catalog. Photo of Sal Buscema from 1969 FF Annual. (Above:) These “Human Torch” panels ran in Marvel Mystery #32 (June 1942)—one of the last stories signed by creator Carl Burgos (photo below courtesy of daughter Susan) before he went into military service for the duration of World War II. Later-’40s “Sub-Mariner” art by Namor’s creator, Bill Everett, can be seen on p. 8. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

they had me doing some editing. Shortly thereafter, Joe and Jack left, and I was like the only guy there and the publisher asked me if I could fill in as editor until he found someone else. And he never found anyone and I’ve been there ever since. I never thought of it as a permanent job. I never particularly wanted to be in the comic book business and I always figured, hey, this is great, I’ll stay here a year or two or three until I make some money and then I’ll write the Great American Novel. And for years and years I stayed in the job, never thinking of it as my permanent career. For years this went on. And I was too dumb to realize, hey, this is what you’re doing, Stan, this is it. I always had this feeling of temporariness. And business got bad and we had to fire a lot of people… I was left with a skeleton crew, which consisted mostly of me. And we were living at Timely under the conditions where every few years there was a new trend. We’d be very big in Westerns and suddenly the Western field dried up and we had to find a new trend, and we’d be doing a lot of super-heroes and then there was a lack of interest in super-heroes so we had to find a new trend… and we’d do romances or mysteries or funny animals. Whatever. And there was no… I mean, I’d write one as well, or as badly, as another. It never made a difference to me what type of thing we were doing. The [Comics] Code was no problem to me. We never put out books that I felt were too violent or objectionable. They certainly weren’t sexy. I never had trouble putting out books that would be acceptable to whoever had to accept them. So when this period came around, it was just like another new trend. Okay, we’ve got to drop the so-called horror stories and now we’ve go to find something else to do. And we did. We came out with… I don’t even remember what we came out with, but I assume we found something.

The whole Atlas thing… this was not the greatest period the comics have ever known… Yeah. Atlas is into the journey into unknown world thing, you know, you and Kirby and Ditko are doing variations on the Japanese monster film, Fin Fang Foom and all this… and somewhere in here you start dreaming about a whole different approach, and what I’m asking is this: was this an accidental thing or did you guys sit down and very deliberately create a revolution. [NOTE: Actually, Maeder is referring to the post-Atlas period of the late 1950s and very early ’60s. —Roy.] Both. It was accidental and I did it deliberately. What happened was, like I say, I’d been thinking it was a temporary job, you know, I’m waiting till I’ve saved up enough money so I can quit and go do something else. And my wife said to me one day, “Stan, when are you gonna realize this is permanent? And instead of looking to do something sensational in some other field, why don’t you make something sensational about what you’re doing? I mean, you’re writing, you are creating… do something really good.” Well, of course, up until then I had always done mostly what the publisher wanted. As you mentioned, it was not a glorious period for the comics. Certainly not for our company. And our publisher, who also published other types of books—movie books and crossword puzzle books and so on, the slicks—by this time he had left the comics pretty much in my hands. He didn’t have any tremendous interest. They weren’t doing all that well and he wasn’t that much concerned, I suspect. And coincidentally my publisher walks in one day and he says, “You know, Stan, I just realized, I was looking at some sales figures, and I see that National Comics’ Justice League seems to be selling pretty good. That’s a bunch of super-heroes, Stan, maybe we ought to form a team of super-heroes. Maybe there’s a market for that now.”

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

didn’t remember Thor, but doubted that a Fawcett complaint had anything to do with the character’s demise. But Simon had already departed before that fatal fifth tale was published, so Thor may have been quashed after his editorial tenure. One thing is certain: had Victor Fox not suppressed the Golden Age Thor, there might never have been a Marvel version in the Silver Age of Comics. Instead, Grant Farrel could have followed Dan Garrett, Fox’s Blue Beetle, to Holyoke, then to Charlton, and finally to DC Comics, where he might still be swinging his magic hammer even today! (Thanks go to Joe Simon, Stan Taylor, Jon Berk, Robert Klein, Nigel Cantwell, Ron Goulart, and the late Jerry Bails for helping put together the puzzle of Thor.)

So there you have it—Murray and Gilbert on the first few fourcolor Thors, as well as MTG on the earliest Iron Men (Iron Mans?)! Next issue: We conclude our Stan Lee birthday bash with TwiceTold Marvel Heroes, Part Two—featuring the Golden Age GiantMan—and a whole swarm of Wasps! Ouch!! In the meantime, stop by my website for more Golden Age fun. You’ll find it at: http://mrmonster.com/ A final look at Weird Comics’ original Thor—in this case, a giant figure in the sky, battling a squadron of fighter planes. Flexo the Rubber Man had nothing on Victor Fox’s thunder god! [©2007 the respective copyright holders.]

Till Next time...

“Once [Stan Lee] Put Me On Staff, I Was Strictly With Timely Comics” Golden Age Timely Artist PETE TUMLINSON Talks About Timely And Others Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

ete Tumlinson’s comic book career was relatively short, but I liked his work quite a bit in those old Timely comics of the late ’40s to the mid-1950s. Thus, I was always curious about him, and, though Pete’s recollections about those days are not extensive, I‘m just happy to share what I’ve learned about him— and about Timely (later Marvel) under Stan Lee in the postwar years through the coming of the Comics Code. —Jim.

“I Was A Flying Chauffeur For Eisenhower’s Headquarters” JIM AMASH: I’ll start with the basic question: when and where were you born? PETE TUMLINSON: [laughs] Well, let’s see. That would be 1920 in Glasgow, Montana, June 7th. JA: What got you interested in being an artist? TUMLINSON: I don’t know. I’ve always done it from the very first. JA: Did you copy newspaper strips or illustrations in magazines when you were young? TUMLINSON: Yeah, but I didn’t stay with that exclusively. I went and dreamed up things of my own, sooner or later. I didn’t do much writing. Over the years, I had several classes in different things from figure drawing to painting. I went to the University of Chicago one time when I was very young—high school, I think. And at one time I took illustration in Dallas. I can’t think of the name of the place right now. They called me cold on a Saturday morning. [mutual laughter] I got a B.A. in architecture at Texas A&M. JA: What years were you in college? TUMLINSON: ’39 to ’42. I didn’t finish, though. I went off to the war and then I came back after the war and finished. I was in the Air Force. I started out in the field artillery. I volunteered. You see, I started out in the ROTC in college, so I just continued. In the meantime, the war started. I transferred to the Air Corps. It later became the [Army] Air Force[s]. They were enlarging at that time, so they were taking people from other branches. That’s how I got from field artillery to the Air Force. After I got my wings, I—it was a long time ago. I’m trying to

This Is Not Pete Tumlinson Alas, we were unable to obtain a photograph of Pete Tumlinson by presstime. So, to lead off his interview, we’ll showcase a splash page he drew starring one of the most famous features he worked on—“Kid Colt” from Wild Western #20 (Feb. 1952). Incidentally, except where otherwise noted below, all art accompanying this interview was provided by Dr. Michael J. Vassllo. [©2007 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

get this in the right order. At one point there, I went overseas and I went to SHAEF headquarters. I was a flying chauffeur for

The Phantom Of The Department Store An Early Captain Marvel Yuletide Yarn by John G. Pierce

Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

aptain Marvel is pitted against a foe he can’t seem to see in “The Phantom of the Department Store,” a Christmas story from Fawcett’s Captain Marvel Adventures #19 (Jan. 1943).

calls Mr. Massey. By the time the boss arrives on the scene, the suit is lying on the floor, leaving the clerk to defend himself from Mr. Massey’s charge that “You’ve been sampling spirits! From a bottle!”

The tale begins with Mr. Morris sending Billy and Steamboat (who is preoccupied with a camera he has) to Massey’s Department Store (obviously a thinly-disguised version of the real-life Macy’s) to pick up some items. Billy mentions to Steamboat during their trek down to the store that Massey’s seems to have more business than the city’s other large department store, Dunkel’s (not too close an approximation of the name of Macy’s then-rival Gimbel’s—“Does Macy’s tell Gimbel’s?” was a popular catch phrase of the day).

But elsewhere, as a man is contemplating the purchase of a dress for his wife, with a female clerk’s assurance that “It will animate her,” the dress does indeed suddenly become animated, and even attempts to dance with the customer.

Also taking note of the success of Massey’s are Mr. Dunkel and one of his associates, but the former begins making plans to do something about it. Later, an already-costumed “Santa Claus” appears to apply for Massey’s advertised Santa job, and is summarily hired. “Your duties will be simply to walk up and down the store and add Christmas atmosphere.” “I’ll add plenty of atmosphere, never fear,” responds the newly-hired Kris Kringle.

After finding nothing more than wire and metal, Cap changes back to Billy, who notes that the incident “seems to have scared most everyone out of the store, too, except this store Santa Claus,” who cheerfully wishes Billy a “Merry Christmas.” Customers flee the store, vowing never to come back, while Mr. Massey laments that “Business is being ruined! What is that phantom? How can it be stopped?”

A few minutes later, in the clothing department, a clerk is showing a prospective customer a suit and telling him to “just picture yourself in it, walking briskly,” when suddenly the suits starts walking—and talking—by itself. And, not content with simply walking, it starts into a Highland fling! The customer flees in panic, while the clerk hurriedly

A cry of help reaches Billy’s ears, and a quick “Shazam!” brings Captain Marvel onto the scene. He punches the dress, while commenting that it is the “First time I ever fought a wire dummy.”

Meanwhile, Billy continues trying to fill Mr. Morris’s shopping list in the hardware department, while Steamboat spots a dummy display and starts to snap a picture—when the dummy abruptly comes to life. Steamboat calls out a warning to Billy as the dummy is about to hit him with a hammer, bringing forth another quick “Shazam!” from Billy and the return of Captain Marvel, who wonders aloud that

Well, Cap And Santa Do Wear Similar Color Schemes…. Splash of “Captain Marvel and the Phantom of the Department Store,” from Captain Marvel Adventures #19 (Jan. 1943). Art by the C.C. Beck art staff. [©2007 DC Comics.]

The Phantom Of The Department Store

something, sir? Tee, hee!” (Handsome, muscled superheroes can have that effect on women sometimes.) Unable to find the phantom, Marvel reverts to Billy, loads up Steamboat’s arms with all of Mr. Morris’ items, and they return to the radio station. Billy is due for his broadcast, while Steamboat wants to develop his photos, Nightie-Night, Cap which, as it turns out a few panels “Santa” misdirects Captain Marvel to the lingerie section. [©2007 DC Comics.] later, provide the clue: a shot of a huge magnet. “You caught our phantom!” Billy tells “Somebody’s trying to crack Billy’s skull—but why?” as the hammer Steamboat. This shows how he did all his tricks—with a big magnet! hits Marvel’s head harmlessly, causing the dummy’s arm to crack. Now I can trap him. Er—I mean, Captain Marvel can! And I have a Mr. Massey comes rushing up, noting that now the invisible wonderful idea—tomorrow, Captain Marvel is going to take a job at phantom is “trying to commit murder.” He pleads with Cap for help, Massey’s Department Store!” but Marvel immediately dismisses the thought of a “phantom.” It is And so, the next day, Captain Marvel, disguised in a business suit, always intriguing to see characters whose background and/or powers applies to Mr. Massey for a job and is hired. Even in disguise, Cap is were of supernatural origin, as was certainly true of Captain Marvel, instantly recognizable to the readers, due to his distinctive features as decline giving serious consideration to the thought that a seemingly created by C.C. Beck, and maintained by the staff artists who followed other-worldly menace might be real … even though, most of the time, his style. Yet, Mr. Massey clearly does not recognize Cap, commenting they were correct and it was just a hoax or trick of some kind. If this was a flaw back then, perhaps it was nonetheless done with good that he looks “rather big and clumsy.” (But, from Superman onward, it intent, and from a story standpoint worked out better. has been a convention of the super-heroes that a simple change of clothes, a pair of glasses, or some other seemingly superficial change is While Cap is contemplating, the phantom strikes again, with an sufficient to disguise them.) anvil dropped on the World’s Mightiest Mortal’s head. Someone offpanel yells out a warning about the falling steel anvil, but as it cracks As the disguised Marvel starts his job, the phantom strikes, using his apart on Captain Marvel’s pate, he simply comments, “What anvil? magnet to set into motion a miniature car with a child in it. The stillDon’t disturb me—I’m thinking. Who in this store is playing the part disguised Cap dashes past the panicking mother and rescues the kid just of the phantom? How? By what tricks?” Although Cap had his times of distraction, this certainly wasn’t one of them. He was the very picture of singularity of focus on this occasion! Suddenly, he spots someone behind a pillar, but when he tries to give chase, the phantom is gone, with his voice coming from various spots. Marvel continues his pursuits, but all he succeeds in doing is ruining some furniture. Finally, he spots the store Santa, who continues to be his usual cheerful and unflappable self. Santa sends Cap off in another direction, only to find a female clerk in the ladies department, who asks, “Do you want