Issuu

PLUS:

Vol. 3, No. 44 / January 2005 Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

™

Special Issue On The JSA, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, & INFINITY, INC.

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artist Jerry Ordway

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to: Arthur Adler Heidi Amash Murphy & Helen Anderson Bob Bailey Mike W. Barr John Benson Bill Black Dominic Bongo Jerry K. Boyd Mark Cannon Rich Buckler Mike Burkey Bob Cherry Shaun Clancy Gerry Conway Dale Crain Fred DeBoom Craig Delich Al Dellinges Mrs. Pat Donath Mrs. Al Duca Michael Dunne Mark Evanier Jennie-Lynn Falk Shane Foley Ed Furness Janet Gilbert Ron Goulart David Hajdu George Hagenauer Jennifer T. Hamerlinck R.C. Harvey Irwin Hasen Dave Herring Steve Herring

Tom Horvitz Al Jaffee Joe Kubert Henry J. Kujawa Gerald Lazare Mike & Eve Machlan Dan Makara Todd McFarlane Brian K. Morris Will Murray Jerry Ordway & Family Fred Patten Joe Petrilak Robert Pincombe Charlie Roberts Ethan Roberts Stephan Rowe Greg Sadowski Mark Shainblum Rick Shurgin Joe Simon Steve Skeates Robin Snyder Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Joel Thingvall Dann Thomas Alex Toth Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Delmo Walters, Jr. Tom Watkins Len Wein John Wilcox Tom Wimbish

This issue is dedicated to the memories of

Joe Buresch, Rudy Palais, & Kin Platt

Contents

Writer/Editorial: ...With Liberty And Justice Society For All . . . . . . . . 3 ÒAChance To Spread My WingsÓ.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Artist/legend Joe Kubert speaks with Jim Amash about drawing “Hawkman” in the 1940s.

ÒCartoonistsAre So Unaware Of Who They Are!Ó. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Irwin Hasen on illustrating “Green Lantern,” “JSA,” et al., in the Golden Age.

(Excerpts From A) Postcard from the Edge–– Of California, That Is! . . 20 Alex Toth tells us why he has nothing to say about the JSA.

A ÒWillÓ Of The Wisp!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 Still more art from that long-lost mid-1940s “Justice Society” story!

An ÒAtomÓ Age Artisan. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 Arthur Adler on his short, sweet comics-writing career in the late 1940s.

Of The Spectre And Lesser Lights . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 A brief conversation with Golden/Silver Age All-Star Murphy Anderson.

[Contents continued on next page.] Above: Along with this issue’s cover, Jerry Ordway was kind enough to send Ye Ed various other pieces of art he drew for DC during the 1980s, including this display drawing done for DC’s marketing department to promote the landmark series Crisis on Infinite Earths. The illo spotlights the Earth-Two Superman and Firebrand (of the All-Star Squadron), Obsidian and Fury (of Infinity, Inc.), and Blue Beetle (of the 1980s Justice League International). What can we say but—“Gorgeous!” [©2005 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, N C 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title contents

[contÕd ]

ÒIJumped At The Opportunity!Ó. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Rich Buckler talks to collaborator Roy Thomas about the All-Star Squadron.

ÒYouReally Put Me Through My Paces!Ó.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 Jerry Ordway on working with Mike Machlan & Roy Thomas on All-Star Squadron.

From The Centurions To Infinity, Inc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 Roy Thomas’ original 1982 proposal for the feature that became Infinity, Inc.

Tributes to Joe Buresch, Kin Platt, & Rudy Palais . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59 Comic Crypt: ÒILike Ike!ÓPart Two . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 Michael T. Gilbert shows comic book artists saluting President Eisenhower in 1954.

Tales Calculated To Drive YouÉ Odd! Part Two. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 Bill Schelly completes his interview with 1960s parodists Steve & Dave Herring.

re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 FCA (Fawcett Collector of America) #103. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Al Duca, Steve Skeates, Marc Swayze—& Louis LeBone!

About Our Cover: In 1983 Jerry Ordway was in the process of seguing from penciling All-Star Squadron to inking (or so he intended) the upcoming title Infinity, Inc. DC asked him to draw a two-page spread for its summer publication The DC Sampler, which was to be distributed free as a promotion piece—so Jerry produced this powerful panorama symbolizing events in All-Star Squadron #26 and that mag’s second Annual, which would guest-star the new heroes of Infinity, Inc. Ever since, two or three years ago, Jerry sent Alter Ego’s editor (and his 1983 collaborator) Roy Thomas a photocopy of that illustration, it was a foregone conclusion that it would become a wraparound cover of A/E! And now it has! [©2005 DC Comics.]

™

COMING IN FEBRUARY

an TM &

sel; Sandm

Cr eig Fles

• Sensational brand-new full-color Sandman cover by CREIG FLESSEL! • The Two Greatest Artists of the Gas-Mask SANDMAN! Fascinating interview with comics pioneer CREIG FLESSEL, conducted by JIM AMASH—plus an in-depth study of BERT CHRISTMAN, the original artist (and pr obable creator) of The Sandman, by DAVE ARMSTRONG—with tons of rare art and vintage photos! • Scarce and never-before-seen artwork by JACK COLE, JOE SHUSTER, FRED GUARDINEER, CHAD GROTHKOPF, BILL ELY, GILL FOX, OGDEN WHITNEY, et al.! • Special Bonus! Author MICHAEL CHABON talks with ROY THOMAS about his Golden Age research for his Pulitzer Prize-winning novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, with art by GIL KANE, WILL EISNER, JACK KIRBY, DICK AYERS, & MART NODELL! • Tributes to Golden Age artists IRV NOVICK & HARRY LAMPERT! • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, & OTTO BINDER’s lost “Jon Jarl” story— MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BERNIE WRIGHTSON & other young pros at Warren, circa 1970—BILL SCHELLY on comic fandom—ALEX TOTH on anything he feels like talking about—& MORE!! C Comics

Edited by ROY THOMAS

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standar d, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewher e: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • F AX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www .twomorrows.com

Title writer/editorial

...With Liberty And Justice Society For All!

year—that sometimes the “flip” covers confused browsers, who couldn’t recall if they’d already purchased an issue earlier: “Hmmm… the Dave Stevens Sheena cover on #21 looks familiar… but not the Irwin Hasen JSA re-creation on the other side. Do I have this issue at home, or not?”

e’re starting the New Year off with a few changes—which somehow seems the right time for them. And we’re not talking about this issue’s dedication largely to a single theme, that of the Golden Age Justice Society and its later spin-offs, the All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc., both conceptualized by Ye Editor in the 1980s.

So, for the foreseeable future, there’ll be just one cover… and we’ll have to go for the strongest image we can find that fits that month’s contents.

First off, although Alter Ego did have one previous wraparound cover (on Vol. 3, #5), you may have noticed that this issue is different. Namely, you don’t have to turn it upside down to read half of it. For, as of this month, we are, with some reluctance, abandoning the concept of “flip” covers and sections, probably for good. Starting with #45, there’ll be just one A/E cover to ogle… a situation which has both its up side and its down side.

The other minor change starting with this issue is that it’s eight pages thinner than editions since #15. Sure, we’d like to slide by without mentioning this—but we figure A/E’s readers can count. We also figure that most of them will consider 100 pages (counting covers) to be an adequate bargain at $5.95—or $1 less, if they have a subscription. Actually, 100 pages was the page count for issues #2-14, and the 8-page increase was meant to be temporary. So much material has come streaming in from all sides, however, that I clung to the slightly greater length for three years, and John indulged me. But the time has finally come when we either had to increase the cover price, or drop a measly half-signature, and the latter seemed the preferable route. We hope you agree, and will continue to feel—as many of you have said you do—that Alter Ego is one of the best and most unique comics-related magazines in the market.

The “flip” nature of A/E was a holdover from the late ’90s, when A/E itself was merely a 16- to 40-page addendum to Jon B. Cooke’s original Comic Book Artist. It was Jon who suggested the “flip” bit, printing A/E upside Jerry OrdwayÕsNewsboy Legion/Guardian down to the main body of CBA. With a bit of pin-up from All-Star Squadron Annual #1 (1982). arm-twisting, I persuaded amiable publisher ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, John Morrow to continue the “flip” concept, courtesy of J.O. [©2004 DC Comics.] originally because I intended to devote half of each issue of A/E to the Golden Age, and half to the Silver. When that unwieldy plan fell by the wayside after an issue or two of this third volume, I kept the two-cover look because it freed me to Other than that, we can only repeat what we’ve mentioned once or use at least one cover each month which didn’t have to be overtly twice before: if you want to make certain that A/E continues its monthly “commercial.” We figured, for instance, that Dave Cockrum’s X-Men illo schedule, honoring the Golden and Silver and even Bronze Age creators of would be more likely to make retailers order copies of A/E #24 than the heroic comics, there are two things you can do to help: equally stand-out Mort Meskin drawing of Vigilante on that issue’s flip side. This was in no way an aesthetic judgment—for every reader who (1) Buy every issue—not just one that emphasizes DC, or Marvel, or decried the double-cover thing , there was another one who loved it—but some favored artist or writer or subject. For A/E to appear monthly, we that was John’s and my own imperfect response to what we deem the need to have a certain base sale each month, not just when some relatively marketplace to be. “hot” topic or creator is covered. Besides, I’ll be bluntly honest about it— if a comics fan can’t find $6 worth of value in each and every A/E, I don’t But it’s just proven too time-consuming and, in the end, expensive to think he or she has much real interest in the history of the field. What’s feature two covers every month. It’s not that sales of Alter Ego are the use of only reading about creators and creations you already know declining—but they’ve stayed relatively flat since the aftermath of 9-11-01, you like? and the economic realities finally caught up with us. Besides, John has this theory—and who am I to say he’s wrong, since he and Eric Nolen(2) Please tell other folks about Alter Ego. It’s kinda depressing each Weathington hawk back issues of A/E at numerous comicons every month to find out that some dyed-in-the-wool fan of the Golden and Silver Ages hasn’t even been aware of Alter Ego’s first 40-plus issues. One comics convention organizer only saw the mag for the first time as Monthly! The Original First-Person History– this issue was in preparation—and instantly bought an ad. It goes without saying that selling an extra ad or two helps assure that A/E will either be published by Robin Snyder in your mailbox, or on the racks or under the counter at your friendly neighborhood comics shop, each and every month. Okay, end of hard-sell. Don’t worry—Alter Ego is definitely not on its last legs—far from it! In fact, it would take only a relatively few additional copies sold each month to make certain that it continues to come your way for years to come. We don’t want in any way to denigrate those of you who support it by buying most issues, or even just the occasional one—but if you can see your way clear to do a bit more, we’ll all benefit!

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

Bestest,

The All-Stars: From The ’40s To The ’80s part one

“A Chance To Spread My Wings” Artist & Legend JOE KUBERT Talks About Drawing ÒHawkmanÓ In The 1940s Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: While “Hawkman” wasn’t the first feature Joe Kubert drew in the Golden Age of Comics, his stint on that character is his most memorable of the time period. Hawkman was also a leading hero in “The Justice Society of America” in All-Star Comics, and was popular enough to star on every second cover of Flash Comics. Hawkman went through a few changes in the late 1940s, and here now is Joe to tell us about those changes and what it was like to draw the Winged Wonder, under the tutelage of two editorial legends—first Shelly Mayer, and later Julius Schwartz. —Jim. JIM AMASH: When Shelly Mayer gave you a “Wildcat” story while “Hawkman” was your regular assignment, would he tell you why? JOE KUBERT: I was very young at the time, and had complete trust in the fact that Shelly felt that I could handle any jobs that he gave me. I looked forward to doing them. There was nothing special about drawing “Wildcat” or any of the other features. Even when I was doing “Hawkman,” the character itself was really meaningless to me, Joe Kubert graciously autographing a comic at the All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention at White Plains, NY, in 2000Ñflanked by ÒHawkmanÓ splashes heÕd done for Flash Comics more than a half century earlier! At left is his first, from Flash #62 (Feb. 1945)Ñabove, the one for the final issue (#104, Feb. 1949). Of course, even earlier in 1944, heÕddrawn the ÒDr. FateÓ chapter in All-Star Comics #21, and his very first ÒHawkmanÓ story in The Big All-American Comic Book. The former was reprinted in All Star Comics Archives, Vol. 5, the latter in the just-published DC Comics Rarities Archives, Vol. 1. Thanks to Joe Petrilak for the photoÑand to Kubertfan Al Dellinges for the two Flash Comics pages. Incidentally, Al pointed out years ago that an under-20 and probably nervous Joe Kubert left a letter out of the heroÕs partly-obscured logo! [Hawkman art ©2005 DC Comics.]

except that it gave me an opportunity to draw comic books and an occasional cover. Whenever I brought in a job (which I did on an erratic schedule, because I was going to school at the time and was terrible with deadlines), Shelly would always have another job waiting for me, even though I didn’t quite meet the deadlines that he set. JA: What do you think Shelly saw in you? KUBERT: Probably the same thing he saw in guys like Carmine Infantino and Alex Toth: we were young kids, and Shelly was an incredibly sensitive person who recognized in others those things that he felt himself. He recognized in me and the other guys a love for what we wanted to do. We expressed that love with the effort that we put into the work that we did. Sure, we were doing lousy, terrible stuff, but he saw potential in the fact that we put every effort into it. Since he felt the same way about the work, he encouraged us. That was something for which we were all grateful. JA: Irwin Hasen told me that Shelly would sometimes throw the pages up in the air, and things like that.

The All-Stars: From The ’40s To The ’80s part two

“Cartoonists Are So Unaware Of Who They Are!” IRWIN HASEN On Drawing ÒGreenLantern,ÓÒJSA,Ó Et Al., In The Golden Age Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

NTERVIEWER’S NOTE: It’s been my good fortune to spend time with Irwin Hasen at comic book conventions. This past year, we sat next to each other at Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC, and while I did most of the talking, Irwin—as always—entertained me with stories about people he had known in comics. I realized Irwin Hasen enjoying himself at the I wanted to get some of All Time Classic New York Comics that information in print, Convention in 2000Ñpages from his preWWII sting as a ÒGreen LanternÓ artist. and happily, Irwin agreed At right is his splash from All-American to this interview, which Comics #47 (Feb. 1943). Thanks to was meant to complement Joel Thingvall for the photocopy of the Roy Thomas’ interview original art. [GL art ©2005 DC Comics.] with him, which appeared in the first issue of the current volume of Alter Ego. As many of you know, Irwin’s the life of every convention he attends. And he places good, affordable prices on the work he sells, too—so tell Irwin that Alter Ego sent you the next time you see him. Thanks, Irwin, for a fun and informative chat. —Jim.

JIM AMASH: You mentioned Bert Whitman to me at the Heroes Convention this past June. What can you tell me about him? IRWIN HASEN: Bert Whitman was a top editorial cartoonist at a Detroit newspaper in the 1930s. He left the Midwest and came to New York, where he became sort of an entrepreneur, working for the publisher of The Green Hornet. I met him during that time. After that, he did a comic strip called Debbie Dean for The New York Post. He’s the one who arranged to have me do The Goldbergs. Jerry Robinson was supposed to do it first, but there was an altercation over salary between Jerry and the executive editor. Jerry just sort-of conked out and Bert called me. I had just gotten out of the Army, and it was a wonderful opportunity for me. I worked there in the newspaper office for one of the happiest years of my life. Just like in the movies—The Front Page, and all that. I worked there at a drawing board, and Stanley Kaufman wrote the strip, though I never met him. He later became a music editor or something like that. I met some wonderful people there like Victor Riesel, the labor editor, who was blinded by gangsters. Bert Whitman was a flamboyant guy. He was 6'4", very dapper, kindof a playboy type. He was entrepreneur-ish; he wasn’t really a cartoonist as we know cartoonists. He has since died, by the way. I never saw enough of his editorial stuff to comment on it. Debbie Dean just briefly had its star.

Bert had been a polo player in Detroit. I visited him at his house in Long Island, and I saw his polo mallet in the corner. I said, “Gee, Bert, I’d love to have that for my apartment; I just moved in.” So he said, “Yeah okay, you can have it; I don’t need it.” About five years later, he was moving out to Stockton, California, to become an editorial cartoonist, and Bert called me up and said, “Look, I’m moving out there. Could you mail me that mallet?” So I had to go to the Daily News syndicate, and have the mailroom guys wrap up his polo mallet and mail it to him. That was ridiculous... genuinely stupid on his part... not nice. I worked in his office, doing “Cat-Man” at the time [1940]. I was told by Julie Schwartz that I was the first one to draw “Cat-Man.” I don’t remember that, but if Julie said so, it had to be right. JA: You started at the Chesler shop. What do you remember about Harry Chesler?

Irwin Hasen On Drawing ÒGreenLantern,ÓÒJSA,Ó Etc., In The Golden Age Gleason Publications, and he started to make a lot of money. I can remember when Charlie bought himself a Jaguar, a white one, and he showed it to all of us. It was adorable. He opened up the trunk and showed us the elegant toolbox that came with it. [laughs] JA: Why did he have holes in his sweater? HASEN: He was that kind of guy. He was probably broke. He was a “huh-huh-huh” kind of a guy. You know, “huh-huh-huh.” JA: What do you remember about Mort Meskin and Irv Novick?

Bert Whitman Strikes Twice! (Above:) These final two panels from WhitmanÕsfirst Debbie Dean, Career Girl newspaper dailyÑdated Jan. 11, 1942Ñ follow ones explaining that ÒDebbie Dean, heiress to a fabulous fortune, tires of the life of a debutante,Ó so she becomes a reporter. This art was reprinted in Coulton WaughÕsseminal 1947 book on comic strips, The Comics. (Right:) Oddly, though Irwin Hasen drew the very first ÒCat-ManÓ story in HolyokeÕsCrash Comics #4, Whitman drew the first cover featuring Cat-Man, on Crash #5 (Nov. 1940). [Debbie Dean art ©2005 The New York Post Syndicate or its successors in interest; Crash art ©2005 the respecive copyright holders.]

Novick and his wife and I got to be very friendly. He was a grade-A carpenter; he built his house with his own hands. He was a great artist, one of the best. He always smoked a pipe.

HASEN: He was a very interesting kind of a man. He had offices like a schoolroom: behind each oldfashioned desk was a cartoonist in his 20s, and he treated them as if they were students. He was the headmaster, with a felt hat, a cigar in his mouth, and a vest. He’d walk around the guys like they were children in his classroom. They were doing the odds and ends of his workshop. He farmed out work. I did single pages and sports cartoons for him—fillers. The others—Charlie Biro, Mort Meskin, Irv Novick—they all sat like children in a classroom. I worked as a staffer in his building from 1939 to 1940. He used to come up to everybody at the end of the week and say, “How little do you need to live on?” [laughter] And you looked at him as if he was joking, but he wasn’t! But he was all right. He was a man of his time. He was sort of a third-rate entrepreneur in a run-down building on East 23rd Street, with a classroom. Charlie Biro was a big, lovable guy in a red sweater with holes at the elbows, sitting there in the classroom. Then he went on to work with Bob Wood at Lev

HASEN: Mort and I were very close. He was very shy; he stuttered. He was a low-key, shy man, very sensitive, and a wonderful artist. His eyes would blink when he stuttered. You knew he was going to be in bad shape later in his life. You just had that feeling. We didn’t talk too much, but Mort was a sweetheart. My whole life has been about making people laugh. I don’t know why, but that was my schtick in life, and I always loved to make Mort laugh.

JA: How many people were working in the Chesler shop? HASEN: About twenty people. Winsor McCay’s son Bob was also there. He was a quiet guy, skinny and dark-skinned. Joe Kubert was Chesler’s mascot. He loved Joe and Joe loved him. It was like a father-son relationship. But I don’t think I met Joe until I was working for DC. We sat there quietly, getting our work done. That’s all. There was no fooling around. I don’t remember how much I was paid... maybe it was $8 a page. We were paid in cash. JA: Why did you leave Chesler? HASEN: I went up to DC because an uncle of mine knew Jack Liebowitz, who was then an accountant for Harry Donenfeld at

When editor Julius Schwartz reminded Irwin Hasen that he was the first artist to draw ÒCat-Man,Ó he was no doubt actually referring to ÒWildcat,Ó which Irwin initiated later in DC/AAÕsSensation Comics #1 (Jan. 1942). The rare drawing at left was done (and even colored!) by Irwin in 1941 for fellow artist Jon Chester (ÒChetÓ) Kozlak, who drew ÒWildcatÓ a couple of years later. A copy was sent to us by Hasen agent (and friend) Dan Makara. But Julie was right, albeit by accident! Irwin also drew the first ÒCat-ManÓ storyÑfor Crash Comics #4 (Sept. 1940). As per the splash and other panel above, the Holyoke Cat-Man was originally a cross between Batman and Tarzan. This origin tale was reprinted in AC ComicsÕCat-Man Ashcan Edition No. 2 (1996); check out ACÕsad elsewhere in this issue. [Wildcat art ©2005 Irwin Hasen; Wildcat TM & ©2005 DC Comics; restored ÒCat-ManÓ art ©2005 AC Comics.]

Arthur Adler On His Short, Sweet Comics Writing Career

25 appeared in print.

trying to get me to fill a slot there. I’m glad I didn’t join, because the Korean War broke out on June 10, 1950, and I got married on June 17 of that year. Happily, I said “yes” to her and “no” to Lou Sampliner. [laughs]

JA: What did you do after leaving the business? ADLER: I wrote a column for thirty years for Home Furnishings Daily, which was published by Fairchild Publications. It was called “Retales”; it was a chatty column about the retail industry. My pseudonym for that was Art Graham. I did that until I was 70.

JA: Was Lou Sampliner the only person you dealt with at Standard? ADLER: Yes. I remember that Lou’s uncle was also involved in the business; his name was either Philip or Paul Sampliner. [NOTE: Paul Sampliner ran Independent News, DC’s comic book distributor, adding to a long held suspicion that DC and Standard Publications were once connected to each other. —Jim.]

I left comics because I didn’t feel that I was fluent enough at writing them, whereas I could just write the “Retales” column off the top of my head. I had a wide range of topics to write about. I used to get fan mail for it, too.

JA: When you wrote stories, did they give you copies of the books, or did you have to go to a newsstand to get them?

JA: Did you miss doing comics after you left it? ADLER: I missed doing the true stuff, like the stories I did for True Comics and at Standard. However, the column kept me busy, because it was a daily. But these days, I’m retired and just try to enjoy life.

ADLER: I could go up to the office to get them, or they would mail them to me. JA: You never signed your work, did you? ADLER: No, my name never

We couldnÕtbe sure that ArthurÕsÒHapÓ listing below was definitely for AceÕsHap Hazard Comics (a ÒteenageÓ title)Ñand the Picto-Journal Guide doesnÕtpicture any Timely Frankie covers after 1946 or Millie the Model after Õ47Ñand there was no Kathy comic at Timely (let alone anywhere else) till 1959Ñnor does anyone we know have any idea where or even if his ÒEzraÓ stories ever saw print (Ezra Stone was the actor who played Henry Aldrich on the radioÑand Henry A. had been the inspiration for Archie Andrews, so it would probably have been a ÒteenageÓ comic). So, given all the above, Ye Editor figured, what the heck, this is Alter EgoÑletÕs exit with The Atom! HereÕsthe final page of what may well have been the last solo ÒAtomÓ story ever scriptedÑ with words by Arthur Adler, and art by Peddy & Oksner. To read the four pages in between this and the splash on p. 22, ferret out a copy of Batman #238 in the back-issue bins! [©2005 DC Comics.]

For The Record... Arthur Adler found one page of his old records, and forwarded a copy to Jim Amash, who retyped it. Arthur didn’t list the company names, so Jim added those as best he could. Listed are (a) the date he turned the story in; (b) the name of the feature (which may or may not also be the name of the comics title); (c) the (parenthesized) name of the company, as reasoned out by Jim, with an assist from Stephan Rowe; (d) storylength as indicated in the script; and (e) the amount he was paid for the entire script. For instance: On Nov. 24, 1947, Arthur turned in a “Jeanie” script to Timely. It was titled “Starry Eyed,” ran 5 pages, and he was paid $35 for it (so his rate was apparently $7 per page). See the art that accompanies this interview for positive identification of the four DC “Atom” stories listed below. —Roy. Nov. 24, 1947 - Jeanie - (Timely) - Starry Eyed - 5 pages - $35

Jan. 1948 - Hap - (Hap Hazard, at Ace?) - Hip Nonsense - 10 pages - $60

Nov. 28, 1947 - Jeanie - (Timely) - Prom War - 6 pages - $42

March 1948 - The Atom - (DC) - Stream of Stone - 5 pages - $30

Dec. 3, 1947 - Kathy - (company unknown - not Timely) - Shutterbug 9 pages - $54

March 1948 - Ezra - (company unknown) - Smoke Eater

Dec. 4, 1947 - Millie [the Model] - (Timely) - New Old Look 6 pages - $42

April 1948 - The Atom - (DC) - Seizing Statue - 6 pages - $30 April 15, 1948 - Frankie - (Timely) - Frantic Antics - 2 pages - $17.50

Dec. 10, 1947 - Rodger - (Roger Dodger? - Standard) - Current Event 7 pages - $42

April 26, 1948 - Ezra - (company unknown) - Fire - $42

Dec. 1947 - Jefferson - (Standard) - Smoke Eaters

May 12, 1948 - The Atom - (DC) - Looters Light - 5 pages - $30

Jan. 1948 - Andy - (Standard?) - TNT Perfume - 8 pages - $48

May 17, 1948 - Jeanie - (Timely) - Film Flam - 5 pages - $35

April 1948 - Jeanie - (Timely) - Modern Age - 4 pages - $28

June 4, 1948 - The Atom - (DC) - Murder in Totem - 6 pages - $36

The All-Stars: From The ’40s to the ’80s part six

Of The Spectre And Lesser Lights A Brief Talk With Golden/Silver Age All-Star MURPHY ANDERSON

Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Murphy Anderson’s role in the 1960s revival of the Justice Society heroes was one of the artistic highlights of his career. His life-long fascination with those characters made him a natural choice for the JSArelated team-ups in Showcase and The Brave and the Bold, as well as the “Spectre” series that soon followed. Murphy wasn’t able to continue down this path, but his warm, elegant artwork greatly enriched the JSA mythos, and we’re happy that Murphy expressed his thoughts about that work for us. This interview is ©2005 Murphy Anderson & Jim Amash. —Jim.

JIM AMASH: Why were you picked for the JSA-related teamups with Dr. Fate and Hourman, and Starman and Black Canary, in 1965? MURPHY ANDERSON: I was doing a lot of work for Julie Schwartz at the time, and he knew that I was familiar with all of those old characters, maybe more so than some of the artists who had been with him longer. I knew all those characters from their earliest beginnings. As we talked about it, I brought in copies of my old books with the characters in them. It worked out that he needed me for the assignment, and the JSA books were done concurrently. I think “The Spectre” cropped up after the others were done.

Mr. and Mrs. Murphy Anderson at the Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC (June 9, 2001)Ña photo taken by Bob Bailey on the same day as that of Hasen and Schwartz on p. 16Ñplus a chaptersplash from the first ÒSpectreÓ revival story, in Showcase #60 (Feb. 1966). If you wanna see a great repro of that issueÕspage 1 splash, grab a copy of R.C. HarveyÕsexcellent and art-filled 2003 volume The Life and Art of Murphy AndersonÑstill on sale in this issueÕs TwoMorrows ad bloc. [Spectre art ©2005 DC Comics.]

JA: Since you grew up with these characters, these stories must have had special meaning for you. ANDERSON: Sure. I liked “The Spectre” quite well when the character was originally introduced. “Starman” was just around; I never cared much for the feature. “Black Canary” was even later; the character came out after World War II. I enjoyed “Dr. Fate” and “Hourman” very much. I particularly liked Hourman; he even inspired a little marionette I made when I was in junior high school there at Greensboro Central. We had a class project to make little marionettes. They were each about one foot tall, and I designed a super-hero for one of mine. My mother sewed a cape for him, and all that garbage. I made a hood for him out of oilcloth, I believe. I forget what I called him, but it might have been one of my own characters; I had a couple of ideas that I was playing with at the time. Murphy mentioned to Jim Amash that, circa 1940, he had drawn a one-page super-hero parody called ÒVita-Man,Ó so naturally Jim hounded the poor guy till he sent us a copy of this never-published piece. It came with a note from Murphy: ÒWARNING! View enclosed at your peril! Definitely not for the faint of heart! Éunless you have a very low brow!Ó DonÕtbe so hard on yourself, Murphy. It wouldÕvefit nicely in any number of 1940s comics! (For MurphyÕsÒTime TravelerÓ and other amateur strips he used as samples, see R.C. HarveyÕsAnderson tome.) [©2005 Murphy Anderson.]

The All-Stars: From The ’40s To The ’80s part seven

“I Jumped At The Opportunity!” RICH BUCKLER Talks To A Longtime Collaborator About The All-Star Squadron

Interview Conducted by Roy Thomas

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Rich Buckler entered the comic book field in 1970 with black-&-white work for Warren Publications, but soon moved on to DC and Marvel, where at one time or another over the years he drew virtually every super-hero that ever was. I distinctly recall that the art samples he showed me at Marvel circa 1971 dealt with a “wild man of the jungle” story and was an amalgamation of an illustrative Al Williamson-style approach with Kirbyesque dynamics—and thus had some of the same appeal of the work of Neal Adams. At Marvel he and I worked together on various series, including the final three issues of my 70-issue run of The Avengers in 1972—several fun tales of the Fantastic Four—and even one story for Conan the Barbarian! When I signed a contract with DC in 1980 and began to develop All-Star Squadron as one of my first projects there, I was fortunate in having Rich as artist—though not for nearly as long as I’d have liked. In my various installments of “All-Star Squadron Chronicles” in A/E, I’ve unavoidably talked about Rich Buckler—so I figured it was high time I talked, on the record, with the artist I Rich Buckler, in a recent photoÑ nicknamed “Rich ‘Swash’ Buckler.” —Roy.

with (below) the BucklerGiordano art that became the Òinterior coverÓ of the 16-page All-Star Squadron Preview included as a free insert in Justice League of America #193, and (right) their cover for All-Star Squadron #1 (Sept. 1981), minus most wordage. Read below how these two pages were probably originally intended for their opposite numbers. [Art ©2005 DC Comics.]

Wein call you?

ROY THOMAS: You and I had worked together before we did All-Star Squadron in 1980. I think we generally liked collaborating, but I don’t have any recollection of having had any major input on artist choices at that stage. I’m curious if you remember how you happened to get the job. Did [editor] Len

RICH BUCKLER: I don’t remember exactly. It might have been Len, or it might have been Paul Levitz, but I jumped at the opportunity! I always like working with you. RT: Of course, for all I remember, Len and I may have kicked around artists’ names, and if we did, yours would’ve come up. Anyway—I’ve always had this vague memory that the drawing that was used as the cover of All-Star Squadron #1—the one with Hawkman, Dr. Mid-Nite, and The Atom leaning over the table with all the hero photos on it—was originally supposed to be the “inside cover” of the 16-page free Preview that would be inserted in Justice League of America #193—and that the drawing you did of the entire JSA charging towards the reader was to be the cover of All-Star Squadron #1—but that they got switched around, probably by Len. BUCKLER: Yeah, I remember that vaguely, too. I remember having trouble drawing the one that was for the Preview, because it involved the Capitol Building, and it was a lot of work to do. [chuckles] I didn’t really want to do that one.

Rich Buckler Talks About The All-Star Squadron about the two covers, and he responded: “To the best of my recollection, the table cover was my idea, and I believe the ‘changing covers’ [i.e., switching which would go on the Preview in JLA #193, and which on All-Star Squadron #1] was yours. I think we may have toyed with the idea of switching them at some point, but, like you, I really love the table shot and am glad we went with it.” Thanks, Len. —Roy.] BUCKLER: Well, there were a lot of characters! [Roy laughs] You sent me a couple of boxes of photocopied research, which was tremendously helpful. I don’t own all of these books. I remember you saying that cover with the photos might be “too much work,” but I was just willing to throw myself into it. RT: Because I conceived All-Star Squadron as a combination of new stories, adaptations of Golden Age tales, and events from actual World War II history, I sent you lots of reference—not just for #1, but over those five-plus issues you did, a fair amount of reference material—even books and so forth. Did you ever feel kind-of overwhelmed by it? Some artists I’ve worked with resented being asked to do “research”—by which was generally meant just opening the books or paging through the material I sent them. BUCKLER: I really appreciated it. Actually, I’m a research nut. In fact,

ÒWell, there were a lot of characters!Ó says RichÑand no one would dispute the point. This Buckler-Ordway chapter splash from All-Star Squadron #3 (Nov. 1981) depicts twelve heroesÑcounting Johnny ThunderÕs Thunderbolt and Danette Reilly, soon to be the new FirebrandÑconverging on the still-smoking ruins of Pearl Harbor. The date is December 8, 1941, the day after the Imperial Japanese attack that DegatonÕstreachery had kept the JSA from preventing. Script by Roy Thomas. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Rick Shurgin. [©2005 DC Comics.]

RT: I would have thought the other one with all the “photos” would’ve been harder. BUCKLER: No, no. That one was a pure pleasure. RT: Who came up with the layout? Was it Len’s idea, then you did the exact layout? BUCKLER: I remember it as your idea. RT: Mine? BUCKLER: For some reason, I remember speaking to you on the phone about it. RT: I would love to think that it was—[laughs]—since that’s one of my all-time favorite covers on any comic that I wrote. The only thing wrong with those covers—which I later had you correct on the two re-creations you did for me—was that, somehow, on both of them, Starman got left off in favor of other characters. For instance, The Shining Knight was in the “charging” scene, as if he’d been a member of the JSA, which he never was. But that was minor. [NOTE: As this issue of A/E was in preparation, I e-mailed Len Wein

This Buckler-penciled, Ordway-inked, Thomas-scripted fact page features JSA foe Per DegatonÑwhose second past-altering plot was the linchpin of All-Star Squadron #1-3Ñappeared in issue #2. His first, of course, had been in All-Star Comics #35 in 1947. When Degaton had returned in the first Injustice Society tale, in All-Star #37, there were several discrepancies with his appearance only four months earlier, so Roy set the 1981 story in between those two epics, and had fun reconciling them. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, from RoyÕspersonal collection. [©2005 DC Comics.]

The All-Stars: From The ’40s to the ’80s part eight

“You Put Me Through My Paces!” JERRY ORDWAY On Working With MIKE MACHLAN & ROY THOMAS On All-Star Squadron And Infinity, Inc. Interview Conducted by Roy Thomas Via E-Mail

/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Has it really been thirty issues—pushing three years—since the first part of this interview, titled “Inking Comics the ORDway,” appeared in Alter Ego #14? Clearly, super-heroes aren’t the only thing that flies when you’re having a good time. Back then, Jerry spoke of how, in 1980, he landed his first pro assignment under editor Len Wein: All-Star Squadron. That part of this interview dealt with Jerry’s inking Rich Buckler’s pencils in the Preview insert in Justice League of America #193 and in the five issues Rich drew of the regular Squadron series. This second segment covers both his remaining stint on the comic, and how he segued over to the new Infinity, Inc. title. As the writer and co-creator of both those series, it was a pleasure to work with Jerry on them, and to re-live those halcyon days in this interview. —Roy.

(Above:) Jerry Ordway with his three children, Rachel, Thomas, and James (the youngest). JerryÕswife, Peggy May Ordway, worked as marketing & publicity director for DC Comics from 1985-90. Photo by his mother-law, Mr. Pat Donath. A family affair! (Below:) Jerry drew this panoramic twopage spread for the ÒAll-Star SquadronÓ entry in Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe #1 (March 1985). Of course, it depicts only a fraction of the actual membership, especiallly before Crisis on Infinite Earths thinned the ranks by a half dozen or so heroes by 1986. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Jerry Ordway. [©2005 DC Comics.]

ROY THOMAS: How did you feel about Adrian Gonzales, who replaced Rich starting with AllStar Squadron #6? JERRY ORDWAY: Adrian did a respectable job, though Len’s first comments to me indicated that he thought I would abandon the book when Rich did. I was too new to realize that was the way the game was played. I wasn’t going anywhere, as I would’ve honored my 12-issue contract, anyway.

Jerry Ordway On All-Star Squadron And Infinity, Inc. ORDWAY: I inked most of it on a lightbox, working from stats of an already-inked job, from the Cancelled Comic Cavalcade. You cut and pasted that job and wrote a framing sequence that Adrian Gonzales drew. I didn’t want to ink on vellum this time, as my last such experience [on All-Star Squadron #1] had been a nightmare, so I went all-out and redrew it on board, and had fun with the zip-a-tone. Years later, at a DC Christmas party, I met Don Heck, and he told me how much he liked it, so that was gratifying. RT: With #7 I just began referring to you and Gonzales in the credits as the “artists,” rather than penciler and inker or embellisher. Did you ask for the change, do you recall? ORDWAY: I’m sure I was relentless with Len in getting credit I thought was due. Remember, DC kept stringing me along about getting penciling work, and I felt I had a lot to prove, so I was pretty touchy about that. I found that, as we went along, I was asked to redraw more and more panels per issue, so I guess that was good therapy for the penciler in me, too. RT: You did an intended cover for All-Star Squadron #11 with that “alien” facing the heroes, but it wasn’t used. (Joe Kubert did that cover, too.) I used your drawing as a pin-up later. Had you just done that possible cover on your own, or had you worked it out with Len?

This action page, inked and finished by Jerry Ordway, is from All-Star Squadron #6 (Feb. 1982), the first issue with pencil breakdowns by Adrian Gonzales. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the (autographed) original art, courtesy of Michael Dunne. [©2005 DC Comics.]

RT: Weren’t Adrian’s pencils looser than Rich’s? Did Len and/or I have you doing even more changes? ORDWAY: Adrian was doing more traditional layouts, I guess. They had more structure than much of what Rich did, but had no mood or lighting indicated. As for changes, there were a fair amount asked for, but I liked what the guy did. I also guess, at that point I had become the more important part of the art team, as you and Len looked to me to keep the artwork consistent with the previous five issues. RT: At this point you began inking the covers, as well, including Rich’s final one on #6. ORDWAY: I was ready by then, I think, and enjoyed it a lot. Hawkman looked like your favorite Kubert version on that one! RT: How did you feel about the Joe Kubert covers that began again with #7? ORDWAY: I was torn, really, because they were great covers, and I’m a huge fan of Joe’s, but I really wanted the whole book to have my stamp on it artistically. I understood Len’s thinking, though. RT: You also inked the Don Heck-penciled “Steel” episodes that I tossed in from his canceled title. How was Don to ink?

JerryÕsfirst attempt at an All-Star Squadron cover was this sterling art, done for issue #11 (July 1982). It saw print four years later as a color pin-up in All-Star Squadron #65. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of J.O. [©2005 DC Comics.]

ÒYouPut Me Through My Paces!Ó

The worldÕsfirst glimpse of Infinity, Inc.Ñon JerryÕscover for All-Star Squadron #25 (Sept. 1983). A few cross-lines and a nucleus were added to the atomic symbol on NuklonÕschest in the printed versionÑand The Silver Scarab was apparently added to the cover as printed only at the last moment. And Jerry and Roy explain, in the interview, why a cameo head of Simon & KirbyÕsGuardian was drawn at bottom right. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Jerry-O. [©2005 DC Comics.]

Frankly, weÕrenot sure exactly where this full-page drawing of the JSA vs. Solomon Grundy by JerryÕserstwhile partner Mike Machlan was meant to appearÑlet alone if it ever didÑbut itÕsa winner! Jerry believes it may predate MikeÕspro careerÑin which case it wouldÕvemade a heck of an art sample for All-Star Squadron! [©2005 DC Comics.]

ORDWAY: That was a fun story, and it was great to draw Tarantula again. That was also a fun challenge, to basically caricaturize all those public figures. They had to look good and recognizable, or the story lost impact.

ORDWAY: Well, it was a great learning experience for me, as I had to draw more stuff than the average starting artist is asked to do. I built models of Japanese Zeros, as well as US warplanes, and even an aircraft carrier. They were helpful in staging and lighting scenes of war. I grew a lot as an artist in the years I worked on All-Star Squadron, and developed my style looking at the greats of the past. I came away with an even greater appreciation of John Buscema and Wally Wood, two of my idols, after studying Raymond’s Flash Gordon and Foster’s Prince Valiant.

RT: After this, you inked more covers by Buckler and Hoberg, through #39—then came back to ink Arvell Jones’ cover pencils for #41. That was the last one you did, right? Quite a string, though— and I appreciate your continuing to work on the covers so long after you left the interior art. ORDWAY: I also drew the cover for #50. RT: That’s right! I momentarily forgot about that. That was a great cover—the start of the Crisis tie-ins. A lot of heroes on that one, too! ORDWAY: Like I said, it was fun to draw those characters, and I always respected your love for the source material, even when we had differences of opinion on things. RT: Any particular thoughts about All-Star Squadron or related items?

While you put me through my paces, I’m glad for it now. I don’t think I would have stretched as much if you hadn’t kept on me in that first year. Do you even remember the critiques you wrote? Several single-spaced typed pages per issue? Wow, that was overwhelming to me on my first big assignment. I still have them somewhere. Anyhow, thanks again for including me in Alter Ego! RT: It’s impossible to discuss All-Star Squadron, let alone Infinity, Inc., without wanting to talk to Jerry Ordway about them!

The All-Stars: From The ’40s To The ’80s part nine

From THE CENTURIONS To INFINITY, INC. The Birth Of The Second-Generation Justice Society – 1982-83 by Roy Thomas

NTRO: As related in detail in Alter Ego, Vol. 3, No. 1 (Summer 1999), the 1984-88 DC Comics series Infinity, Inc. and several of its durable heroes were born one midSeptember day in 1982 when my wife Dann and I, in New York to present to DC a concept for a new time-travel super-hero comic (very tentatively called Time Titans), took a ferry ride over to the Statue of Liberty. We got to talking, and by the time the ferry returned to Manhattan, I’d decided to push instead for our new idea: The Young Centurions. It was to star the sons, daughters, and heirs of several members of the Earth-Two Justice Society of America, whose adventures I was already chronicling in All-Star Squadron. [That very day or the next, I spoke with new DC head editor Dick Giordano about the concept, and he basically approved it at once. However, Dick asked that I write up a proposal, mostly as a formality, but also to crystallize some of the still-vague aspects of the series; so, a few days later, back home in Los Angeles, that’s just what I did—with substantial input from Dann, the concept’s unofficial cocreator. [Recently, I stumbled across the following “prospectus,” dated Sept. 20, 1982, which is printed below for the first time ever, despite the fact that I realize I took a bit less care with its actual prose than I should have. I figured it was already a 99%-sure sale, so I didn’t bother polishing it in those pre-PC days. I sent it off to Dick—and, for reasons outlined in the foregoing interview with Jerry Ordway, the group later debuted as time-tossed guest stars in All-Star Squadron #25 (Sept. 1983), the seventh issue of that WWII-set comic penciled by Jerry, and inked by his friend and colleague Mike Machlan. After that storyline was completed in #26 and in All-Star Squadron Annual #2, the first issue of Infinity, Inc. #1 debuted around the turn of 1984, with a March cover date. The comic was one of a new breed to be sold to the direct market only, and to be distributed mostly through comics shops, rather than on newsstands. While DC owned the concept and characters, creators were given a reasonably decent contractual royalty rate, which wound up being shared by artists/co-creators Jerry and Mike and myself (and, indirectly, Dann). Infinity, Inc.—the title change from The Centurions necessitated by the already-imminent animated series of that name—lasted 53 issues (through Aug. 1988), plus a couple of specials—over 1000 pages of Earth-Two-derived wonderment that, if I can judge from my appearances at comics conventions, is fondly recalled by many.

(Above:) Roy & Dann Thomas in the 1980s, in a pic taken by a professional photographer (as a gift from their friend Jennie-Lynn Falk)Ñwith Roy posed to look taller than Dann, when actually sheÕsohso-slightly the taller of the two. JadeÕs alter ego was named after Jennie, who was DannÕsroommate at UCLA in the early Õ70s. (Left:) Infinity, Inc., debuted via time travel in All-Star Squadron #25 (Sept. 1983). In #26, six of the new heroesÑfallen under the control of SupermanÕsfoe The Ultra-HumaniteÑwere agonized over by Brainwave Jr. and The Flash. Art by Jerry Ordway (pencils) & Mike Machlan (inks); script by Roy Thomas. ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original black-&-white art, as printed in the comics-news magazine Amazing Heroes #36 (Dec. 1, 1983), not long before Infinity, Inc. #1 went on sale. [©2005 DC Comics.]

[Running across this long-forgotten proposal recently—I’ve learned since that Jerry, too, still has a copy—I became aware that a few statements I made in A/E V3#1 were in error, such as thinking that perhaps Silver Scarab and Brainwave Jr. and Obsidian and even the name Fury had been in our minds by the time Dann and I returned from our daytrip to Liberty Island—or even by the time I wrote the proposal. I now know for certain that they were not. For the most part, however, the A/E V3#1 account—which this printing of the original document and accompanying art is meant to augment—is an accurate reflection of the evolution of the concept, both before and after Jerry and Mike became involved. In no way, however, is that account and/or this one intended to subtract anything from the artists’ status as co-creators of Infinity, Inc.— which is why, with Jerry’s help, so much of their art is used to illustrate it here. [Of course, several of the names and concepts in the prospectus will be familiar to readers of today’s DC Comics: Jade—Northwind— Fury (well, Lyta Trevor, anyway—she hadn’t yet been dubbed Fury)—and Nuklon (now Atom Smasher, I’m sorry to say). Although I wasn’t 100% certain of the fact when I wrote the article in A/E V3#1, it’s also definitely revealed that, at this early stage, Dann and I surely had it in mind that the Golden Age Harlequin was to be the mother of Green Lantern’s twin children! [As you’ll see, Jerry and Mike were already under consideration as artists (by Dann and me, anyway) when I wrote the proposal, and they were officially piped aboard very shortly afterward. From that point on, the four of us worked together; but at the time the prospectus was written, they knew only what little I’d told Jerry about it—without bothering to get DC’s OK in advance. Except for

Title Comic Fandom Archive

Tales Calculated To Drive You….

ODD!

Part Two Of An Interview With STEVE & DAVE HERRING Editors Of Odd, FandomÕsForemost Humor Publication In The 1960s by Bill Schelly

ast issue, we featured the first half of our interview with Steve and Dave Herring, who in the 1960s published (and largely wrote and drew) the parody fanzine Odd, which had been inspired primarily by EC and Harvey Kurtzman’s early Mad. We resume at the point where the brothers, who got together with a tape recorder, were recounting an oral history of Odd, reading our questions and responding to them on an audio tape, which was duly transcribed by Brian K. Morris. STEVE: Next comes the question, “How did you guys divide the tasks in producing Odd?” I think, as Dave has kind of indicated, he actually started this up on his own and then I joined in to help at some point early on. But Dave was the entire art department, production department, and editorial department of Odd. When I began contributing, I did have some editorial input, probably because I was older than Dave and he tells me that I might have actually made an investment in a ditto machine at that time. Have anything further to say about dividing tasks? DAVE: I did most of the first few issues, anyway. I did most of the writing and drawing and everything. I was glad to get Steve’s contributions with some of his own stories. He wrote the little humorous essays, and little strips, and so forth. Then we started to have other contributors. STEVE: Dave was, of course, primarily an artist. He did writing, too. When I joined, I did some artwork, but liked the dialogue and the situations and the ideas. I kind-of saw myself as the Harvey Kurtzman type who did more writing than art for Mad. During much of that era, I was away at college and leaving Dave unchecked to do the things that he did. When did material from others start appearing in Odd?

A 1965 photo of Steve (on left) and Dave Herring (on right), with fan-friend and Odd contributor Jay Kinney. Above are the covers of Odd #7 and #9, with their comics-parody covers drawn by Dave. [Art ©2005 Dave & Steve Herring.]

DAVE: Looking through my personal copies of the fanzine—I did save at least one copy of each issue for myself—I could see that, all the way through #6, just about everything was done by Steve and myself. It wasn’t until #7 that we introduced an outside artist who did an entire comic strip. It was “Dumb-Devil” by Steve Sabo. After that issue, one or two of the major comic strips were done by contributors, rather than us. STEVE: “What were some of your favorite fanzines?” I have a very vague recollection of fanzines. Dave got closer to them. DAVE: Yeah, at the time I guess I subscribed to some zines. My memory isn’t too clear. I know that some of the guys who contributed to Odd, who were really into it, published their own zines. Jay Kinney, who did contribute some stories to Odd later on, was a big fan and he was into humor and he published own zine called Nope, which I believed I printed for him. Marv Wolfman had his own fanzine for a while. I had started a serious super-hero fanzine for some reason—It really wasn’t my thing—called Super Adventures, and Marv took over publishing it after my first issue or two. But other fanzines—I’m looking through my box of what I’ve saved over the years and I don’t really find too much. I’ve saved some other fanzines that I had contributed to and I do have the first five issues of witzend, which was really a pro-zine. By the way, just as an aside, at the time I was corresponding with Marv Wolfman and other fans via audio tape. I called the compilation of audio reports from different fans “The Voice of Fandom.” I think I still

An Interview With Steve & Dave Herring He was a completely bald guy with glasses and he even had a crack in his head. We went a step further and had a little sign protruding out of the hole in our character’s head.

STEVE: “What do you consider the highlights of Odd, specific strips or features, etc.? When you look back at Odd, does it seem as funny to you now as it did then?” Looking back and trying to remember highlights, I guess the first thing that came to my mind was how we would try to come up with a feature called “The Typical Odd Reader of the Month”, which was a one-page portrait of something pretty horrible. Every month, or every issue, we tried to top the grotesqueness of the previous issue, an escalating challenge. I do remember that in our various stories and the artwork, we seemed to feature a lot of toilets. I’m not sure why, but I’d have to say that toilets (Left:) The cover of Odd #1 was printed last issue, so hereÕsthat of #2Ñan homage of sorts to Harvey KurtzmanÕs ÒItÕsMelvin!Ó cover of Mad #1. (Right:) ÒDum-Devil,Ó drawn by Steve Sabo for Odd #7, was the first strip in the were perhaps our signature motif fanzine in which the brothers Herring had no hand as writers or artists. [Odd #1 cover ©2004 Dave & Steve Herring; and running through Odd. It’s all Dum-Devil art ©2004 Steve Sabo.] still funny, to me, for its intended level. And as Pee Wee Herman may have some of those tapes. showed us, childish, juvenile humor never dies, and that’s really what it was. STEVE: Okay. And Bill writes, “From what I gather, you didn’t care for Mad magazine edited by Al Feldstein. Did you regularly read it or was it something that you only saw occasionally?” We were very much involved with the magazine when it first started. We were excited about the changeover to that format and subscribed to it for many years. So the interest didn’t switch off just due to the format change. They still had parodies and many of the artists, but it didn’t have the color and it lost some of the key creative contributors that were so important to the comic book. Eventually, our interest waned. DAVE: Right. Yeah, when it converted to a magazine, at first, it was still very good because Harvey Kurtzman was still there for a while. I’m not sure how long he lasted after it became a magazine, but it was a while. But when he left and Bill Elder and I believe Jack Davis left, Mad just wasn’t as funny any more. It just wasn’t as witty. STEVE: Okay, let’s move on to Bill’s question about the fanzine’s mascot, The Odd Bomber. “How did The Odd Bomber character develop?” This is something that, looking back, seems embarrassing and so politically incorrect now with all the terrible things that are going on. But you have to realize the concept of terror-bombing in the ’50s was very remote. At the time, it seemed fair game for humor, I guess. [laughs] In the early 1950s, there was a case of one man who did plant bombs throughout New York City. It happened to be just a disgruntled Con Edison employee. It was big news at the time, and the press dubbed him “The Mad Bomber.” So, in our never-ending quest to mimic all things Mad, in our comic Odd, we came up with The Odd Bomber— although I’d have to say as far as appearance and general theme, it was more of the mad scientist model than the terrorist model that we used for that character. DAVE: Right. I just happened to be looking through some of these old Mad stories and I think I’d seen where some of the inspiration for his appearance might have come from in Mad #5. There was a comic strip called “Outer Sanctum,” Bill Elder’s strip, and there was a character in there [chuckles] whom we probably fashioned The Odd Bomber after.

Alter Ego #44