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November 2004

No. 42

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(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “AllInterview Issue”! Part 2 of an exclusive STEVE ENGLEHART interview (continued from ALTER EGO #103)! “Pro2Pro” interviews between SIMONSON & LARSEN, MOENCH & WEIN, and comics letterers KLEIN & CHIANG. Plus JOHN OSTRANDER, MICHAEL USLAN, and longtime DC color artist ADRIENNE ROY! Cover by Englehart collaborator MARSHALL ROGERS!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

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THE BEST IN COMICS AND LEGO MAGAZINES!

ALTER EGO #105

ALTER EGO #106

ALTER EGO #107

ALTER EGO #108

DRAW! #22

See comic art and script BEFORE and AFTER the Comics Code changes, with art by SIMON & KIRBY, DITKO, BUSCEMA, SINNOTT, GOULD, COLE, STERANKO, KRIGSTEIN, O’NEIL, GLANZMAN, ORLANDO, WILLIAMSON, HEATH, and others! Plus: FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, JIM AMASH interviews Timely/Atlas artist CAL MASSEY, and a new cover by JOSH MEDORS!

DICK GIORDANO through the 1960s—from freelance years and Charlton “Action-Heroes” to his first stint at DC! Art by DITKO, APARO, BOYETTE, MORISI, McLAUGHLIN, GIL KANE, and others, Dick’s final convention panel with STEVE SKEATES and ROY THOMAS, JIM AMASH interviews Charlton artist TONY TALLARICO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and ROY ALD, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, GIORDANO cover, and more!

Big BATMAN issue, with an unused Golden Age cover by DICK SPRANG! SHEL DORF interviews SPRANG and JIM MOONEY, with rare and unseen Batman art by BOB KANE, JERRY ROBINSON, WIN MORTIMER, SHELLY MOLDOFF, CHARLES PARIS, and others! Part II of the TONY TALLARICO interview by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

1970s Bullpenner WARREN REECE talks about Marvel Comics and working with EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, STAN LEE, MARIE SEVERIN, ADAMS, FRIEDRICH, ROY THOMAS, and others, with rare art! DEWEY CASSELL spotlights Golden Age artist MIKE PEPPE, with art by TOTH, ANDRU, TUSKA, CELARDO, & LUBBERS, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, cover by EVERETT & BURGOS, and more!

Interview with inker SCOTT WILLIAMS from his days at Marvel and Image to his work with JIM LEE, and PATRICK OLIFFE demos how he produces Spider-Girl, Mighty Samson, and digital comics. Also, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, art supply reviews by “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

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LEE & KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS (KIRBY COLLECTOR #58)

Special double-size book examines the first decade of the FANTASTIC FOUR, and the events that put into motion the Marvel Age of Comics! New interviews with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others, with a wealth of historical information and Kirby artwork!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

BRICKJOURNAL #17

BRICKJOURNAL #18

BRICKJOURNAL #19

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

LEGO SPACE WAR issue! A STARFIGHTER BUILDING LESSON by Peter Reid, WHY SPACE MARINES ARE SO POPULAR by Mark Stafford, a trip behind the scenes of LEGO’S NEW ALIEN CONQUEST SETS that hit store shelves earlier this year, plus JARED K. BURKS’ column on MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATION, building tips, event reports, our step-by-step “YOU CAN BUILD IT” INSTRUCTIONS, and more!

Go to Japan with articles on two JAPANESE LEGO FAN EVENTS, plus take a look at JAPAN’S SACRED LEGO LAND, Nasu Highland Park—the site of the BrickFan events and a pilgrimage site for many Japanese LEGO fans. Also, a feature on JAPAN’S TV CHAMPIONSHIP OF LEGO, a look at the CLICKBRICK LEGO SHOPS in Japan, plus how to get into TECHNIC BUILDING, LEGO EDUCATION, and more!

LEGO EVENTS ISSUE covering our own BRICKMAGIC FESTIVAL, BRICKWORLD, BRICKFAIR, BRICKCON, plus other events outside the US. There’s full event details, plus interviews with the winners of the BRICKMAGIC CHALLENGE competition, complete with instructions to build award winning models. Also JARED K. BURKS’ regular column on minifigure customizing, building tips, and more!

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Vol. 3, No.42/November 2004

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists

“SILVER-AGERS ASSEMBLE!” Section

Contents

Writer/Editorial: A Sunset in Silver . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Don Heck: A Class Act . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Nick Caputo asks: how did artist Dashin’ Donnie go from “Iron Man” to Forgotten Man?

Steve Fastner & Rich Larson Ernie Schroeder

InFromDefense of Paul Reinman . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 The X-Men to The Mighty Crusaders, by Nick C.

And Special Thanks to:

Werner Roth: When “X” Marked the Spot! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 Nick C. and Werner’s son Gavin discuss a talented master of his craft.

Heidi Amash Richard Howell Michael Ambrose Shirleen King Ger Apeldoorn Rich Larson Bob Bailey Marv Levy Mike W. Barr Wally & Rosemary Littman Michael Baulderstone Sam Maronie Mark Beazley Richard Martines Jack Bender Brian K. Morris John Benson Frank Motler Jon Berk Tom Palmer Mike Burkey Jens Robinson Nick Caputo Jerry Robinson R. Dewey Cassell Herb Rogoff Bob Cherry Gavin Roth Steve Cohen Peter Sanzone Mike Costa Ernie & Constance Schroeder Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt Cory Seidlmeier Terry Doyle David Siegel Michael Dunne Gerry Sorek Peter Duxbury Aaron Sultan Steve Fastner Marc Swayze Shane Foley Dann Thomas Janet Gilbert Bob Thoms Bob Greenberger Anthony Tollin George Hagenauer Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jennifer Hamerlinck Jr. Dr. Michael J. Keith Hammond Vassallo Mark & Stephanie Hames Ware Heike Tom Wimbish Dave Herring Mike Zeno Steve Herring

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Jackson Beck & John Cullen Murphy

Alex Toth on a Handful of Quality Comics Greats. . . . . . . . . 26 ComicCrypt:MichaelT.GilbertGoes for the Gold(&Silver)! . 29 Rare art by Mr. Monster’s master—from 1979 to 2004.

Tales Calculated to Drive You... ODD! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 Bill Schelly interviews Steve & Dave Herring, editors of a great 1960s humor fanzine. Tributes to Jackson Beck & John Cullen Murphy . . . . . . . . . . . 40 re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 A Whole Heap of Hillman & Ziff-Davis!. . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Some months ago, collector Aaron Sultan sent us a scan of this unpublished Avengers illustration by artists Steve Fastner and Rich Larson. Aaron writes: “The art duo of Steve Fastner and Rich Larson has been creating amazing comic and fantasy images for over 25 years. In the early 1980s, Fastner and Larson created a series of portfolio pin-ups for Marvel Comics, including The Amazing Spider-Man, Incredible Hulk, and the old and new X-Men teams. On the drawing table also was a portfolio for an Avengers series that was never published. ‘Return of a Legend’ [the piece used as the cover of this issue of A/E] was the first and only art created for this series.” So we’re doubly—nay, make that triply—thankful to you, Aaron—and to Steve and Rich for granting permission to print this great illo for the first time ever! [Art ©2004 Steve Fastner & Rich Larson; Avengers TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: Iron Man was the first of the new breed of Marvel super-heroes introduced in the 1960s that wasn’t first drawn by either Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko. That plum of an assignment fell to Don Heck, who both penciled and inked the future Armored Avenger’s origin in Tales of Suspense #39 (March 1963)—and it’s a tribute to Don’s skills that most readers didn’t notice the difference! Story by Stan Lee; script by Larry Lieber. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

A Sunset In Silver “Comics giveth, and comics taketh away!”

My friend Gil Kane was given to repeating that homily on various occasions, usually with a wry grimace. Of course, as the artist knew full well, “comics” don’t give or take anything. It’s people and situations and indifference and avarice and stupidity and occasionally just downright intentional cruelty that cause the artistic fortunes of talented folks in the comics industry to rise or fall. Don Heck… Paul Reinman… Werner Roth. Each of these artists contributed substantially to the comics field… yet, in the end, each of them left it (or saw it leave them). Nobody gave them retirement parties, a pension, or a gold watch. One year, they were making a decent living drawing… the next, they had somehow lost their footing, never quite to regain it. Even so, each of them had a decent, fairly long career in comics, and left behind an admirable legacy. For my part, I’ve long wondered if, during those days, I could’ve done more to help Don and Paul and Werner. Since I, as much as anyone, was responsible for keeping John Buscema on The Avengers after Don had been taken off it in 1967 to draw an Avengers Annual, did I—and Marvel, of course—owe the artistic co-creator of Iron Man more than simply shuffling him thereafter from title to title, until eventually he slipped from our purview and wound up struggling to

stay in comics at all? When Paul Reinman was reduced to drawing the occasional mystery story for Marvel, could we have found more for him to do—especially since I was an admirer of his 1940s “Green Lantern” work? When Werner Roth’s X-Men didn’t seem to be selling as well as it should, could we have come up with more for him to do than a few back-up “Origins of The X-Men”—since, after all, I and others had been writing those selfsame X-Men issues? In later years—when I had more time to think and reflect, rather than simply plunge ahead at the breakneck pace we all lived with in those days—I’ve often asked myself these questions, and never come up with totally satisfying answers. Should the comic book field be what it has become—survival of the fittest, king of the hill—or is there room, even a need, for a “kinder, gentler” industry, one that strives to find a useful place and gainful employment for those who have served honorably, long, and well? I don’t know the answers to those questions. I wish I did. But I do know that, whatever they may eventually have felt about the comics business, Don Heck and Paul Reinman and Werner Roth all contributed to it with their blood, sweat, tears, and talent—and the least we can do, at this late stage, is honor them for it. It is also, unfortunately, the most we can do now. Bestest,

COMING IN DECEMBER ™

SEASONS GREETINGS

—FROM NORTH AND SOUTH OF THE BORDER! Christmas Cards—Incredible Interviews— & Mexican Super-Hero Comics of the Silver Age!

• X-Men color Christmas cover by GEORGE TUSKA—and Santo by DAVE STEVENS! • Happy holidays! A panorama of Yuletide art by GENE COLAN, FRANK BRUNNER, JOE SINNOTT, ALEX TOTH, NICK CARDY, DAVE ROSS, et al.! • Candid conversations with Golden Age artist JOE GILL (Lone Ranger, The Owl) and MORRIS WEISS of the 1940s Timely Bullpen—conducted by JIM AMASH and lavishly illustrated by MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOE SHUSTER, BOB OKSNER, etc. • “¡Supermen South!” Mexican comics heroes of the 1960s! The secret Silver Age life of JOE KUBERT’s Tor—the first Conan comics anywhere—dueling Blackhawks—plus Santo, Neutrón, Relámpago (Lightning), El Hombre Invisible, The Phantom Pilot, Supercharro, & Criollo the Invincible Horse! FRED PATTEN busts open a comic art piñata, with art by PABLO MARCOS and many others! • FCA with MARC SWAYZE—plus FRANK MOTLER’s Index to “The Fawcett/Charlton Connection”—art by BECK, GIORDANO, EVANS, & WHITMAN! • MICHAEL T. GILBERT proclaims “I Like Ike!”—BILL SCHELLY acts Odd (Part 2) —& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 PAGES!

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TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom.

TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

Marvel’s Unsung Silver Age Artists: A Tryptich part one

DON HECK –A Class Act

How Did “Dashin’ Donnie” Go From Star Artist Of “Iron Man” & The Avengers To Forgotten Man? by Nick Caputo (First in a Series – Collect Them All!)

(Top left:) Circa 1970 or so, Marvel Comics actually merchandised a package of professionally-taken photos of its “Bullpenners”—including this one of Don Heck, which we’ve sandwiched in between two fine illos. Thanks to R. Dewey Cassell. (Center left:) The kind of western art Don loved to draw. Nick Caputo says it accompanied a prose tale in the mostly-comics Adventure Illustrated #1 (Winter 1981), published by Richard Howell’s New Media. Steven Cohen adds that this illo of a scene from The Virginian was “produced much earlier for a movie theatre chain’s premium to go with the movie of that title.” (The 1946 remake starring Gary Cooper?) (Above:) Don did full art on “Ant-Man” in Tales to Astonish #42 (April 1963); plot by Stan Lee, script by Larry Lieber. Thanks to Bob Bailey for a photocopy of the original art. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

My introduction to Don Heck’s art occurred in the mid-1960s, when he was known primarily as a “Marvel artist” on features such as “Iron Man,” “Ant-Man,” The Avengers, The X-Men, and Captain Marvel, to name a few. Thanks to reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces, I gained an awareness of the artist’s earlier work in another genre. His tenure on the early issues of Tales of Suspense (which, for a time, featured the dramatic sub-title: “The Power of Iron Man”) impressed me greatly, with his later run on The Avengers a close second (in particular issues #32-37, which he inked as well). Heck had a sharp, clean line inspired by Milton Caniff, and his Iron Man stories were attractively designed; his placement of black ink was particularly adept. He brought out the character not only of Tony Stark, but of the supporting players Happy Hogan (a stoic-looking fellow whose appearance may have been influenced by stone-faced silent era (Left:) Tony Stark’s right-hand man Happy Hogan and his female foil Pepper Potts, in a nice Don Heck/Dick Ayers page from the Iron Man/Captain America cross-over in Tales of Suspense #58 (Oct. 1964). Script by Stan Lee, who else? Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, thanks to Mike Burkey. (Incidentally, Jim Amash reminds us that the Cap figure was re-penciled by Jack Kirby.) [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Marvel’s Unsung Silver Age Artists: A Tryptich part two

In Defense Of PAUL REINMAN From The X-Men To The Mighty Crusaders by Nicholas Caputo

Photos of artist Paul Reinman are rare—but one did appear in a special photo section of the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual, by which time he was listed only as a “Cavortin’ Colorist.” His super-hero art in the “Marvel Age” was limited to inking—most prominently the early Kirby-penciled issues of The X-Men, such as this splash from #2 (Nov. 1963). Later, he became famously/infamously identified with “Mighty Crusaders” stories for the Archie folks, such as the splash at right from Super Heroes Versus Super Villains #1 (1966); comic supplied by Jim Amash. Since the cover credits read “By: Dick – Vic – Bob and Paul,” the “Fly Man” story was probably written by Bob Bernstein, who had scripted a few mid-’60s Marvel stories as “R. Burns.” Thanks to Mike Costa and Peter Duxbury. [X-Men art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Fly Man art ©2004 Archie Comic Publications, Inc.]

Okay, I see you out there with a smirk on your face. It’s not the first time. I have suffered the slings and arrows of outraged fans in the past. I’ve been derided and threatened with eviction from the Comic Book Community for my brutal honesty. Please refrain from thrusting that rotten tomato in my direction for a moment. After the defense rests, perhaps you’ll take another look at what I sincerely feel is the unjustly maligned work of Paul Reinman. A little back-history is in order concerning Reinman. He began his career in the 1940s, working primarily for DC and MLJ on features such as “Green Lantern,” “Wildcat,” “Sargon the Sorcerer,” “The Hangman,” Reinman’s heyday at DC came circa 1945-47, when he drew numerous “Green Lantern” stories and covers. The previouslyunpublished tier at right, now owned by longtime comics colorist Anthony Tollin, was once earmarked for AllAmerican Comics #88 (Aug. 1947); but the “GL” cover and story that issue were by Irwin Hasen. [©2004 DC Comics.]

and “Roy the Super-Boy.” From what I’ve seen of his work in this period, Reinman had a loose, sketchy style, but he had a powerful sense of design and drew distinctive covers on All-American Comics and Green Lantern. In the 1950s he worked for editor Stan Lee at Atlas, in genres such as war, western, crime, horror, and romance. He worked at ACG, as well, into the 1960s. His work tightened up, and he produced many moody pages, filled with interesting layouts, innovative angle shots and impressive, detailed backgrounds. Two examples are “Eyes of the Cat” in Mystery Tales #26 (Feb. 1955) and the excellent “Valley Forge” from

War Comics #26 (July 1954). (Examine that one closely and tell me Reinman was a no-talent!) In the 1960s he continued to produce fantasy and western stories for Stan Lee. While his style became less defined and sloppy at times, it still had its moments. By the time Marvel moved into the super-hero field, Lee used Reinman primarily as an inker over Kirby and others. By late 1964, though, he would be enticed to return to familiar territory. Over the years, MLJ had transformed into Archie Comics, named after their best-selling teenage humor strip. They took another stab at superheroes in the late 1950s: The Adventures of The Fly (created by and initially produced by Joe Simon & Jack Kirby—with Paul Reinman hired to draw some of the early stories) and The Adventures of The Jaguar survived. As Marvel Comics, under the auspices of Lee, Kirby, and Ditko, continued to gain popularity in the 1960s, other publishers took notice and attempted to capitalize on its success. Enlisting veteran Paul Reinman to pencil their titles, starting with a new, super-hero version of The Shadow, these books (which were initially labeled “Archie Adventure Group” on the covers and “Radio Comics” in the indicia) soon re-christened themselves “The Mighty Comics Group,” complete with a cover symbol that echoed Marvel’s. It’s amazing Martin Goodman didn’t sue! In all likelihood, Reinman was requested to copy Jack Kirby’s brand of dynamics. The result was a quirky hodgepodge of comics that bore only a surface resemblance to the Marvel line. Even to my young eyes, I was aware these were not Marvel Comics. The tiny Mighty Comics line was produced virtually by two men: Jerry Siegel, writer (yes, the cocreator of Superman) and artist Paul Reinman. In the pages of Fly-Man, The Mighty Crusaders, and

Mighty Comics Presents, some of the most bizarre images and characters appeared. Desperately attempting to copy Stan Lee’s witty dialogue, sense of humor, and flair for drama, Siegel instead turned the books into an indescribable mixture of bad puns, awful villains, “camp” situations, and other travesties far removed from the Marvel style. The books acquired an offbeat charm that could be compared to an Ed Wood movie. To further the analogy, Siegel’s career had similarities to that of Bela Lugosi, a screen personality who had fallen on hard times and worked for Ed Wood because nothing else was available. Reinman, too, had a definite B-movie character-actor flavor: professional, a solid performer, but rarely in the limelight. His work on the Mighty heroes was—at the very least—entertaining. The Mighty Crusaders was Archie’s answer to The Avengers, and starred all the company’s featured heroes. One issue in particular, with a story entitled “Too Many Super-Heroes,” must have given Reinman nightmares. The story revived practically every Golden Age character Siegel could remember or research. The Shadow, who had first appeared in pulp magazines and as a radio drama in the 1930s, was given the super-hero treatment. A lousy idea, combined with an ugly green-and-blue costume that left much to be desired. Before that, however, Reinman’s cover to the first issue spotlighted the traditional Shadow in cape and hat, proving he could still turn out atmospheric work; the cover logo was impressive, as well. While playing upon the “heroes with problems” theme for which Marvel was known, the Mighty heroes’ anxieties were given a more tongue-in-cheek twist. The Shield was one of the earliest patriotic characters in comics; the new version was the son of the original. In his civilian identity, though, he was less than competent in retaining steady employment. Each issue Bill Higgins would attempt to get a job as a barber, dishwasher, etc, and inevitably lose said job when a call to costumed duty arose. It was an innovative idea that added genuine humor to the strip (unlike many of the painfully forced jokes), and Reinman’s art captured the antics admirably. The Web’s troubles revolved around a desire to revive his super-hero career while juggling his responsibilities as a husband. His wife Rosie was aware of his costumed identity, but she was more interested in his taking out the garbage than in stopping crime. The Black Hood and Steel Sterling were two other Golden Age characters brought back for another try: Steel Sterling was downright dull, but The Black Hood had some potential, although his identity as a cop was somewhat superfluous. Nick dares anyone to look close at the Reinmandrawn “Valley Forge” from War Comics #26 (July 1954) and still say Paul was a “no-talent”—and we strongly concur! Wish we could print more than the first page of this 6-page minor classic, which storywise partly echoes an earlier Harvey Kurtzman EC war tale but has its own strengths in both story and art. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

From The X-Men to The Mighty Crusaders

PAUL REINMAN Checklist [NOTE: Same particulars and key as on preceding Don Heck Checklist.] Name: Paul Reinman [1910-1988] (artist; colorist) Pen Name: Paul Are

D.S. Publishing Co., et al.: Circus (a) 1948; covers (a) 1948; crime (a) 1948-50; Exposed (a) 1949; Gangsters Can’t Win (a) 1948; Public Enemies (p) 1949

Influences: Alex Raymond, French impressionists

Eastern Color, et al.: Heroic Comics (a) 1948

Courtroom sketches: CBS [Miami] c. 1980

Feature Comics/Crestwood/Headline/Prize: Black Magic (a) 1960; crime (a) 1949; mystery (a) 1960; romance (a) 1958-60; Sick (a) 1963

Books: Harwyn’s World Encyclopedia Magazines: Wings 1941-42 Advertising: no specifics Painter/Artist: watercolors; mural for Cadence Industries cafeteria (all Marvel heroes); appeared in a TV commercial doing a watercolor; co-owner of an art gallery Teacher: Cartoonists & Illustrators School 1950 Honors: Forbes Industrial Award 1970; Travel award at Washington Square Outdoor Art Exhibit (NYC; no date) Syndicated Credits (Newspaper Comic Strips): Merrie Chase (a) 195051; Tarzan (d)(a) 1949-50

Harvey Comics, et al.: Alarming Adventures (a) 1962; Alarming Tales (a) 1958; Double-Dare Adventures (a) 1967; mystery (a) 1958, 1962; Race for the Moon (a) 1958; romance (p) 1958, 1962; science-fantasy (a) 1958 Hastings Associates: Eerie Tales (a) 1959 Hillman Periodicals: cars (a) 1952-53; crime (a) 1959-50, 1952-53; Flying Fool (a) 1959; The Heap (a) 1949; nonfiction (a) 1949; spy (p) 1952; war (p) 1952; western (a) 1949-52 Lev Gleason, et al.: crime (a) 1949 Major Magazines, et al.: Cracked (a) 1958

Marvel Comics, et al.: Amazing Adventures (a) 1961; Annie Oakley COMIC BOOK CREDITS Western Tales (p) 1955; Astonishing (Mainstream US): (p) 1954; The Avengers (i) 1963-64; American Comics Group: no specifics Battle (i) 1954, 1957-58; Battlefield (p) 1952; Battlefront (p) 1956-57; Captain Archie Comic Publications, MLJ, et Marvel (i) 1968; Chamber of Chills al.: Adventures of The Fly (i) 1959; (i) 1973; Commando Adventures (a) Bentley of Scotland Yard (a) 1945; Black 1957; cartoon/funny animals (a) 1950sHood (a) 1966-67; Boy Buddies (p) 60s; covers (i) 1971; crime (a) 1951, 1941-43; Captain Commando (i) early 1954-56, Doctor Droom (a) 1961; The 1940s; The Comet (a) 1966; The Mighty Falcon (a) 1940; Gunsmoke Western Crusaders (a) mid-1960s; Fireball (p) (a) 1961-63, Human Torch (p) 1945-46; One of Reinman’s last full-art assignments for Marvel was 1941; Fly Girl (a) 1966; Fly Man (a) horror (a) 1951-55; humor (a) 1950s“The Beast from the Bog,” in which he brought a proper mixture of 1965-66; The Fox (a) 1967; The 60s; The Incredible Hulk (i) 1962; quasi-horror and humor to Denny O’Neil’s story of aged vacationers Hangman (a) early 1940s; Inferno (p) Iron Man (i) 1964, 1975; Journey into from Cedar Falls who save the life of an alien—and are given the gift 1941; Kardak (p) 1941-42; The Miracle Mystery (a) 1960-63; Luke Cage – of restored youth for their troubles. This tale appeared in Chamber Man (p) 1940-43; Mr. Justice (a) 1967; of Darkness #5 (June 1970). [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Power Man (i) 1973; Man Comics (a) Red Reagan (p) 1941; Roy the Super 1952; Marvel Tales (a) 1956; Menace Boy (p) 1942-43; Scarlet Avenger (p) (a) 1954; Patriot (i) 1941, Rawhide Kid (p/I) 1964, 1968, 1973, (a) 19601941; The Shadow (a) 1964-65; The Shield (p) 1943; Steel Sterling (i) 62; Riot (a) 1954; religious (a) 1954; romance (a) 1951-56, 1959-61, 1943; The Web (a) 1966-67; The Wizard (p) 1941-44; Zambini (p) 1941 Spider-Man (a) 1973-74, (w/I) 1975; Strange Tales (p) 1951-61; sciencefantasy (a) 1961; Tales of Asgard (i) 1964; Tales of the watcher (i) 1964, Avon Periodicals, et al.: western (a) 1954 Thing and Human Torch (i) 1964, Thor (i) 1964, Two-Gun Kid (a) 1963, Candor Publishing Co.: Zany (a) 1959 War Action (a) 1952; War Adventures (a) 1952; War Comics (a) 1953, Werewolf by Night (i) 1973; Whizzer (p) 1941; The X-Men (i) 1963-64 Charlton Comics, et al.: Hot Rods and Racing Cars (a) 1958; Mysterious Traveler (a) 1958; mystery (a) 1958; Out of This World (a) Parents’ Magazine Press, et al.: True Comics (a) 1942 1959; Outer Space (a) 1958; science-fantasy (a) 1958-59; U.S. Air Force St. John, et al.: historical fiction (p) 1950 (a) 1959 DC Comics, et al.: The Atom 1947-49; Black Pirate (a) 1947; covers (a) 1943-47; The Flash (a) 1944; Green Lantern (a, some p) 1943-47—used inkers such as Sam Burlockoff at least on early work; Hawkman (a) 1946; The King (p) 1943-44; public service page with Green Lantern (a) 1944; Sargon the Sorcerer (a) 1947-49; Starman (p) 1943; Wildcat (p) 1943-44, 1946-47; Wonder Women of History (p) 1943-49

Tower Comics: Dynamo (a) 1967-68, (p) 1967-68; No-Man (a) 1968, (i) 1966, (p) 1968; U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agents (p/a) 1967 Western Publishing/Whitman/Gold Key: Grimm’s Ghost Stories (a) 1974

Marvel’s Unsung Silver Age Artists: A Tryptich part three

WERNER ROTH: When “X” Marked The Spot! A Talented Master of Sadly Vanished Genres by Nicholas Caputo

A mystery wrapped inside an enigma: information on 1950s-60s Marvel artist Werner Roth is minimal. Scouring through yellowing pages of old fanzines; searching feverishly through my collection of comics history books; calling and e-mailing contemporary Atlas/Marvel artists and other fans/historians—I’ve discovered the jarring fact that Werner Roth is an artist who, if recalled at all, is remembered solely for his work on the original X-Men. The company history book Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics by Les Daniels has only one mention of Roth, a brief bit of copy next to two of his unpublished X-Men covers. Categorized by peers such as Marie Severin, Herb Trimpe, and John Romita as a solid artist, with a style more subdued than the explosive work of his contemporaries— especially in the area of super-heroes—Roth’s best work was in fields other than the long-underwear hero. His earlier work reveals his true strengths in a variety of genres. Werner Roth is an artist who has gone under the radar for a number of reasons, due not to lack of talent, but mainly to his inability to become a big name in the world of Silver Age super-heroes. Foraging through his years in comics reveals what a truly talented artist he was. According to information from Robin Snyder, Roth was born on Jan 21, 1921; this coincides with information culled from the Ancestry.com website. His career in comics began in 1950, working for Timely under editor Stan Lee on a variety of assignments including crime, horror,

We’re sorry that Werner Roth’s son Gavin, who shares his thoughts with us in a sidebar later in this article, wasn’t able to supply us with a photo of the artist. But you may recognize this splash by “Jay Gavin” for The X-Men #18 (March 1966)—Werner’s first outing as the mag’s full penciler after working over Jack Kirby breakdowns for several classic issues. Above is a true rarity—a pencil sketch drawn by Werner, in this case of The Beast. Thanks to Aaron Sultan, who showed Roy T. this little gem at the 2004 Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC. [X-Men splash ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; sketch ©2004 Estate of Werner Roth; Beast TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

romance, war, western, science-fiction, and jungle comics. An early example of his work appears in Man Comics #5 (Dec. 1950), one of Timely’s 52-page titles featuring longer crime/thriller stories. Roth drew the 13-page story “The Human Sacrifice,” a tale of two brothers, one good, the other not so good. His splash page is a montage of different scenes, and it is by far the best page in the story. Roth packs a lot into each panel and already shows signs of his later strengths: good characterization, layout, and body language. His only drawback is an overabundance of long shots: dramatic close-ups are few and far between. Nevertheless, it’s a solid early effort, one that would prepare the reader for the type of stories Roth would master best: downto-Earth stories featuring ordinary people. Roth’s first character book, discovered by historian Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr, was the fantasy series Venus. The earliest story that appears to have Roth art (possibly inked by other hands) appears in Venus #9 (May 1950), as detailed in Alter Ego #29. Roth’s work is clearly evident in Venus #10-12, as well (Nov. 1950-Feb. 1951); faces and figures all point to Roth, who probably inked issue #11 and perhaps

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt My first Mr. Monster drawing appeared in 1984 in an ad for Doc’s first story. Twenty years later collector James McCormick asked me to re-create that drawing. It was fun returning to it and making a few improvements. In 1984 I couldn’t quite figure out how to draw Doc’s feet properly—so I hid ’em with a Mr. Monster logo! What a sneak! Luckily, by 2004 I’d figured out how to draw Doc’s boots…. At left is the original 1984 ad. Feel free to compare this version to this issue’s intro page—the 2004 version. Hmmm! Looks like we snuck in a “Twice Told Tale” piece, after all!

That’s it for this issue. Next: We’ll pay a visit to National Cartoonists Society member Dwight D. Eisenhower! Till next time,

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

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For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

Title Comic Fandom Archive

Tales Calculated To Drive You….

ODD!

An Interview Of Sorts With STEVE & DAVE HERRING Editors Of Odd, Fandom’s Foremost Humor Publication In The 1960s by Bill Schelly Introduction Amid the growing numbers of comics fanzines devoted to articles, artwork, amateur strips, and advertisements in the 1960s, one fanzine was quite different: Odd magazine, a humor publication that lasted twelve issues, published between 1961 and 1965, and edited by Steve and Dave Herring, two New York natives who were transplanted to Massachusetts by the time they set about their publishing endeavors. Inspired by Harvey Kurtzman’s Mad, Odd’s main features were comic strip parodies of popular super-heroes and related subjects, as well as single-page gags and other features. Most issues were printed via a machine called a “spirit duplicator” (which generally reproduced pages in purple), though the later numbers sported photo-offset covers. Then came their masterpiece, the fullyoffset Odd #12, which proved to be their swan song in zine-pubbing. Although I first got in touch with the Bros. Herring several years ago, and reprinted the “Lost in Space” parody from Odd #12 in Fandom’s Finest Comics Vol. 1 (which is still available from Hamster Press), it was only recently that it occurred to me how little I really knew about them. To remedy that situation, I made up a list of questions, which Steve and Dave (who still live in fairly close proximity) got together to answer—and here’s the result! Their tape was made on April 3rd, 2004, and was transcribed by the equally odd Brian K. Morris. DAVID HERRING: One, two, three. I guess we’re recording. I think we’re recording now. Actually, I can’t tell with these headphones, but I hope it’s recording. Okay, let’s just go.

(Above:) Steve & Dave Herring in the latter 1950s, reading Harvey Kurtzman’s Humbug—and (below) the brothers today—plus Dave’s cover for their fanzine Odd #8, which parodied more super-heroes than you could shake a veeblefetzer at! That’s Steve on the left and Dave on the right, in both photos. All photos and Herring artifacts printed with this piece were provided by the lads themselves. [©2004 Steve & Dave Herring.]

STEVE HERRING: Okay. Hi, Bill. Steve Herring speaking now. You’ll probably be able to tell our voices apart fairly easily. It’s Saturday, April 3rd, and we’re at Dave’s home in Ashland, Massachusetts. DAVE: Hi Bill. STEVE: We’ll just get right into your questions. The first: “Can you tell us a little about your family, what your dad and your mom did for a living, where you lived, kind of neighborhoods, etc., when each of you were born—do you have any other siblings?” I’ll answer first. We grew up in a nice working-class neighborhood of Queens, New York, called Howard Beach, which now has its own website. I was born in Queens, but Dave was born in Brooklyn. After that, our folks gave up all hope of having normal kids, so we are it. Dad worked for the New York Telephone Company at their substation near Coney Island in Brooklyn. He was a native Brooklynite, complete with the accent. Mom was mainly a housewife, but worked part-time here and there over the years to supplement the income. She was a college graduate from Connecticut, and attempted to bring some refinement to the Herring household. She failed dismally. Anything to add, Dave?

Title writer/editorial

From Air Fighters To Space Busters! One of the major pluses of putting together Alter Ego is the thrill of discovery. While I know considerably more than the average joe knows (or wants to know) about comic books—at least those of a few decades ago, since I have little interest in work produced since the mid-1970s—each and every month I learn numerous facts that I didn’t know before. Most of these are less than earth-shaking—a new factoid about the Superman/ Captain Marvel lawsuit or that long-lost Golden Age “Justice Society” story, or why Mike Sekowsky and George Klein had a falling-out in the late 1940s—but sometimes, and not so rarely as you might imagine, a whole new vista suddenly opens to me. And I figure if I haven’t heard of some aspect of Golden or Silver Age comics, then most A/E readers probably haven’t, either, so I’m eager to share it. This time, it’s information about two smallish but important players on the comic book stage in the 1940s and first half of the 1950s: Hillman Periodicals and Ziff-Davis. Jim Amash was fortunate enough to track down Herb Rogoff, who was an editor first at one, then at the other, and so can give insights about these two quite disparate comics companies. Mr. R. (I don’t feel familiar enough to call him by his first name) was forthcoming not just with memories, but even with materials—as when I opened a mail package recently and found inside, sent on loan for the purposes of illustrating his interview, a thick bound volume containing a dozen-plus 1952 Ziff-Davis comics, one of each title they published during the first half of that year. In addition, Herb R. put Jim in touch with two artists. Wally Littman drew clever cartoons for Hillman, and could provide additional insights

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on the writers and artists of the day. And, most amazingly of all, Mr. R. put Jim in contact with Ernie Schroeder, the artist (and often writer) of the “Airboy” and “Heap” features in later issues of Airboy Comics, as well as other material. Only 2-3 years ago, in A/E #18, I printed a page from a “Heap” tale by an artist I couldn’t identify by name. By issue #29, comics researchers Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., and Hames Ware had put a name with that scratchily illustrative artwork: Ernie Schroeder. And now, thanks to Herb Rogoff and Jim Amash, you and I and all of us can read an entire interview with Ernie Schroeder, behind a color painting of Airboy and The Heap that he did especially for Alter Ego—and both Jim and I have been the surprised and overjoyed recipients of drawings of that classic pair by Ernie. And some folks wonder why we knock ourselves out every month putting out Alter Ego…! Bestest,

P.S.: Got to admit up front, though, re a statement made by Wally Littman on page 41, that I for one don’t think Stan Lee and/or Jack Kirby swiped the concept of The Heap for The Hulk. But I myself did shamelessly borrow from it for The Glob and Man-Thing—and then suggested to Sol Brodsky circa 1970 that Skywald publish its own “Heap,” which it did. I really love the Heapster—and he had become an abandoned trademark.

If you’re viewing a digital version of this publication, PLEASE read this plea from the publisher! his is COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL, which is NOT INTENDED FOR FREE T DOWNLOADING ANYWHERE. If you’re a print subscriber, or you paid the modest fee we charge to download it at our website, you have our sincere thanks—your support allows us to keep producing publications like this one. If instead you downloaded it for free from some other website or torrent, please know that it was absolutely 100% DONE WITHOUT OUR CONSENT, and it was an ILLEGAL POSTING OF OUR COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL. If that’s the case, here’s what you should do: 1) Go ahead and READ THIS DIGITAL ISSUE, and see what you think. 2) If you enjoy it enough to keep it, DO THE RIGHT THING and purchase a legal download of it from our website, or purchase the print edition at our website (which entitles you to the Digital Edition for free) or at your local comic book shop. We’d love to have you as a regular paid reader. 3) Otherwise, DELETE IT FROM YOUR COMPUTER and DO NOT SHARE IT WITH FRIENDS OR POST IT ANYWHERE. 4) Finally, DON’T KEEP DOWNLOADING OUR MATERIAL ILLEGALLY, for free. We offer one complete issue of all our magazines for free downloading at our website, which should be sufficient for you to decide if you want to purchase others. If you enjoy our publications enough to keep downloading them, support our company by paying for the material we produce. We’re not some giant corporation with deep pockets, and can absorb these losses. We’re a small company—literally a “mom and pop” shop—with dozens of hard-working freelance creators, slaving away day and night and on weekends, to make a pretty minimal amount of income for all this work. We love what we do, but our editors, authors, and your local comic shop owner, rely on income from this publication to stay in business. Please don’t rob us of the small amount of compensation we receive. Doing so will ensure there won’t be any future products like this to download. TwoMorrows publications should only be downloaded at

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Glory Days At Hillman And Ziff-Davis Golden Age Editor HERB ROGOFF Plays Compare-and-Contrast With Two Vintage Companies Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Jim Amash & Tom Wimbish [INTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Herb Rogoff is a man I’d always wanted to talk to. As an assistant editor for Hillman Publications and editor for Ziff-Davis, I figured he could enrich our knowledge of comics history. Herb didn’t let me down, relating the inner workings of the companies he worked for and discussing the men who freelanced for him. From the beginning until now, Herb’s career is a fascinating example of the twists and turns one’s life can take. I enjoyed telephonically traveling down that road with him, and now you’ll get to appreciate Herb’s insightful observations, too. Writer, artist, editor, publisher, salesman, teacher, raconteur... and... well, see for yourself... —Jim.]

been an assistant to [famed illustrator] Dean Cornwell. James Bama [later paperback cover artist, including the classic Doc Savage of the 1960s] was also in our class. Frank Reilly would walk around the room and look at what we did. When the model took breaks, I’d start drawing sports cartoons in the margins of my paper, and Reilly would correct them.

“Drawing Was All I Wanted To Do”

“I Started Working For MLJ While Still In High School”

JIM AMASH: I’d like to get some background information on you, so let’s start at the beginning.

Professionally, I started working for MLJ while still in high school, as a summer apprentice. Harry Shorten was the editor. I went up there one day, showed my samples, and got a job as a letterer. I was left-handed, which made it hard to letter. One of the owners, Louis Silberkleit, saw me lettering, and said, “You can’t be a left-handed letterer. You have to do it right-handed or you’ll smear everything you letter.” He told Harry, who came and talked to me about it, so I taught myself to letter with my right hand.

HERB ROGOFF: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, May 12, 1927. I started drawing when I was very young. Drawing was all I wanted to do. I copied the artists from the newspaper strips. My older brother Leonard was an extremely gifted artist. We discovered that he had a rheumatic heart when he was ten years old. He went into high school at age ten and graduated at age 14. He died at age 18; I was 11 at the time. He was absolutely fantastic and a very bright guy. If we’d had sulfa drugs back then, he’d have had a much longer life. He was one of my biggest influences. I went to the High School of Music and Art in New York City, graduating in 1944. Norman Maurer and Joe Kubert also went to the school, simultaneously drawing comics for various companies. I didn’t know them while in school, though I did get to meet Joe years later when he worked at Ziff-Davis. Everett Raymond Kinstler also went to school there. After school, I went to the Art Students League until 1945, when I was drafted into the Marine Corps. My anatomy instructor at the Art Students League, Frank Reilly, had

Herb Rogoff—juxtaposed with Dan Zolnerowich’s dramatic cover for Airboy Comics, Vol. 7, #7 (August 1950), one of the many comics Rogoff edited during his career in the field. Photo courtesy of H.R.; thanks to Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., for the loan of the comic. [Art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: How in the world did you learn to do that? ROGOFF: Well, my father had changed me from a left-hander to a right-hander in my writing, but never in my drawing. It was easy for me to change over. In fact, I still letter with my right hand. This was 1943, so I was 16 at the time. I was hired as a letterer, but I kept making some mistakes, so I started doing minor jobs, like filling up ink bottles. What a demotion! [laughter] They had staff artists like Carl Hubbell, which, as you know, was also the name of a famous baseball pitcher. Hubbell drew a feature called “Sergeant Boyle.” Carl was tall and gangly; he seemed liked a farmboy. I don’t know where he was from and never saw him again after that summer.

“The Good ‘Heap’ Artist” An In-Depth Interview (At Last!) With

ERNIE SCHROEDER –––The Ultimate Illustrator (and Writer!) Of “Airboy,” Et Al. Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash A photo of Ernie Schroeder taken December 2003—and a drawing of Airboy and The Heap that he did around the same time as a surprise gift for interviewer Jim Amash. It’s as if Airboy Comics wasn’t ever canceled half a century ago! Photo courtesy of Ernie & Constance Schroeder. [Art ©2004 Ernie Schroeder; Airboy & The Heap TM & © the respective trademark & copyright holders.]

[INTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Ernie Schroeder was simply known as “The Good Artist,” because he never signed his name to his comic book work. One day, Hames Ware happened upon a pulp magazine filled with drawings by “The Good Artist,” and saw the credit “Illustrations by Ernest Schroeder.” At last, comic book historians were able to put a name to the mystery artist! However, very little information about Ernie surfaced, until now. Thanks to Herb Rogoff, it’s my personal pleasure to peel back the Wizard’s curtain and show off one of most unsung artists in comic book history: Ernie Schroeder, the great “Airboy” and “Heap” artist who delighted a generation of fans. A humble, fun, and delightful man, Ernie isn’t as convinced as we are that he was—and still is— terrific, but he’s going to have to get used to it! Sit back and enjoy the praise Ernie: you deserve it! —Jim.]

“I Always Always Able To Draw Pretty Well” JIM AMASH: Tell me where and when you were born—and about your family history. ERNIE SCHROEDER: January 9, 1916, Brooklyn, New York. My father was a graduate of West Point who fought in the Spanish-American War. He went to the Philippine Islands and stayed there for twenty years. On one of his trips to the states, he met my mother at an amusement park that her father owned and ran. She was one of nine children and each one worked in the park. My father married her and wisked her away to the Phillipine Islands and they were out there for eight years. She worked in a hospital out there and became a damn good nurse. They came back to the States because I was on the way and so was World War I. When they got back, my father was decorated with all kinds of medals, and he went a little crazy and everyone went crazy over him. First of all, he worked with D.W. Griffith on The Birth of a Nation... on a white horse as a Confederate soldier. He might have played General Sheridan... I’m not sure. The whole thing turned his head and he started a company called Noxon, that made silver polish. He did this with an old German chemist on the east side of New York. The company was a howling success and he got a contract from the Ford Motor Company to sell trucks in Brooklyn. The ladies were all over him and he just sort-of slipped away from my mother. He went off and she was sort-of stuck with my little presence. She gave me to my grandmother and I lived with her for a while. In the

meantime, my mother took a nursing job with a friend of hers who wanted to go on a weekend date. My mother met old man Ricks, who was the president of Union Carbide and we moved into his estate. In one week, I had gone from the Brooklyn cockroach slums—which gave me asthma as a frail little kid—to having servants wait on me. Talk about rags to riches! There were three other boys living in the house who were older than me. Naturally, they gave me “the works.” Once, I was on top of the garage roof... we had Cadillacs and Lincolns there... and everybody was jumping off the roof. I was scared. My mother came out—and I get all choked up thinking about her—and said, “If you don’t jump off of that roof, I’m going to give you the beating of your life.” [laughter] So I jumped off, and from then on, I kept jumping until I was strong enough to do chin-ups with one arm. I copied Teddy Roosevelt, who was anemic. “He’s so frail.” But I got stronger by playing in the woods; there were a hundred and ten acres on the estate. I read all the time and started drawing at an early age. I was interested in nature and drew pictures of all the butterflies and bugs on the estate. And we’d go into New York, driven by a chauffeur, to the Bronx Zoo, and see the guy in charge of the reptiles. Because we had money, we were given special treatment. They really liked us. We’d go to Tiffany’s and got to hold the Hope Diamond in our hands. I went from being a

“The Good ‘Heap’ Artist” Brooklyn tenement kid to King of the World! [laughter] Sam Wanamaker’s was a big department store in New York. They ran art contests in the public school system, and I won, handily, a couple of years in a row. I also won second and third place the other times. It was an incentive to keep drawing, and my mother’s Uncle Phil used to paint frescoes in the movie theatres, so I had plenty of encouragement. Along with a few other guys, he painted the elevated trains in Brooklyn, too. I was always able to draw pretty well. One time, a traveling salesman came to the estate and all of us boys met with him. He had a blackboard with a roller on it that he wanted to sell. We were asked to draw railroad tracks, and the other boys drew them like ladders. I drew mine in perspective with the telegraph poles, and the salesman told my mother, “This boy is artistic and has a good eye. You should buy this blackboard.” My mother didn’t buy it and I didn’t want it anyway. She said to me, “I guess you’re going to be ruined by that art crap, like everyone else in the family.” [laughs] She was cynical about art, which I guess I am a little now. I don’t paint anymore. Carl Sandburg came to the estate one time. Old man Ricks invited Sandburg... well, millionaires don’t invite—they command, and writers and artists have to kiss their fannies. Anyway, Carl Sandburg played the guitar and sang a song that went like this: “Away from the US, the home of the free. The home of the bedbug and the cockroach and flea. I’ll sing you its praises and talk of its fame, while starving to death on my government claim.” It was true. People went out West and didn’t have anything. They made houses out of sod. Sandburg told this story about a father who found a plank of wood and put it over his fireplace. The guy’s wife brought out a peacock feather and laid it on that board. Their neighbors would come out every Sunday to see that peacock feather. Can you imagine how dull that was? The people who built this country worked so hard under difficult conditions, finding joy and entertainment any way they could, and now they’re all for cars and guns. I just don’t know what’s going to happen to all of us.

“I Studied Anatomy Under Bridgman” JA: Our culture seems to be changing from day to day, so who knows what will happen next? By the way, I understand you studied art with George Bridgman and George Grosz. SCHROEDER: I started playing hooky from school in my sophomore year of high year, and my mother used to fight the truant officer while I went to the Art Students League. I studied anatomy under Bridgman, and met George Grosz and other German refugees, who were running from Hitler. Bridgman looked like Santa Claus, without the beard. He always wanted to be a muralist, but he stunk at it. He had two models, one of which was a Norwegian carpenter. He was so emaciated from working so hard, that when he posed under the spotlight, he looked like a skeleton. The other model was a woman, Rosie, who was Rubenesque. If you were a good student, Bridgman would invite you out to lunch with him and the carpenter. I was invited on two separate occasions, which was quite an honor. Now, Bridgman and I were rebuilding garages at the time, so all we talked about was carpentry. I went to the school for a couple of months or so. Grosz had fought in the trenches for the Germans in World War One, so he was a tough guy. He commuted into New York and read The Wall Street Journal upside down. He was always spoiling for a fight with a commuter; he was a bad-ass. I told him to go up to Cape Cod because the sand dunes look like naked women and the sea grass looks like pubic hair. I told him that he’d make out. He went up there and his

stuff got into the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I knew he’d make it! I’ll tell you a very interesting story, both for your edification and my wanting to pass it along. I was working as a textile designer when I first got married and making $21 a week. This was after my stint in the Merchant Marines. We had just had our first child and I had to get a job right away, so I became a textile designer. The boss (his name was Bob) took off on his honeymoon with one of the women who had worked there, so we didn’t get our paycheck that week. I borrowed some money from my mother, and in the meantime I asked one of the salesmen, “What happened to Bob? Is he ever going to come back?” This guy was a Frenchman and he said, “I don’t know.” He didn’t give a damn. Ernie at age 12, circa 1928. I said, “Look, we got men and women Watch it, Ernie—that hedge here who need to get paid.” He said, “I’ll behind you might be The tell you something. I use an old barn in the Heap in disguise! woods. I fill it with paint and canvas and brushes and put a bunch of artists in there who like to draw... no food, no water... nothing! I come back in a week, and they’re all dead, but I have some beautiful pictures.” I took this story to heart. I was in a trade where your ego was involved and you’re competitive, but someone’s always going to take you for a ride. So I was always careful about getting paid for my work. Most artists are like actors: if they’re in a prison, they’ll get up and do an act just before they’re electrocuted! [mutual laughter] They’re all weird people! I have this weirdness in me and I try to curb it.

JA: This happened in the late 1930s? SCHROEDER: Yes, just before World War II. I went into the Merchant Marines in 1936. After two voyages, I quit. I could have been a Fourth Officer, but I wanted to stay ashore. That’s when I got married, and took that job I mentioned.

“We Had Trouble With The Nazis” JA: You told me an amazing story about your time in the Merchant Marines, which I’d like to share with our readers. SCHROEDER: Okay. In 1936, I was a cadet officer. We had trouble with the Nazis in Germany. This was the time when Jesse Owens beat the hell out of the German runners and Hitler was chewing the carpet in disgust. He was plenty pissed off. Of course, we loved it! I used to go on shore leave in Hamburg by myself and wander around. I wanted to see the battle site of Jutland, so I took a train trip there. I could speak a little German, so when I got out there, I asked a hotel operator where the Battle of Jutland site was. I was told that I’d need a guide. I went to bed, and in the morning met a very young, tall guy and a little fat fart, both wearing Nazi uniforms. I asked if they wanted breakfast, and the tall guy said, “We Germans drink beer.” In other words, no breakfast, so I said, “Well, have some beer then.” I didn’t care for this guy and the fat one didn’t speak any English at all. We went out there and saw the site. I had a map of the battle with me and had read up on the battle before going out there. The British had lost an awful lot of tonnage there because their magazine was near their engine, and whenever they got hit, they suffered quite a bit of damage. The British lost, but the Germans never came out. I made a comment to

Alter Ego #42