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THAT WILD & WONDROUS

1950s MARVEL SUPER-HERO REVIVAL!

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Vol. 3, No. 35 / April 2004

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists John Romita Al Jaffee

Cover Colorists Tom Ziuko Al Jaffee

And Special Thanks to: Al Jaffee Mark Austin Richard Lee Dick Ayers Stephen Barrington Stan Lee Mark Lewis Michael Mile High Comics Baulderstone Scotty Moore Allen & Roz Matt Moring Bellman Lawrence Bowkett Chris Pedrin Warren Reece Gary Carlson Ethan Roberts Rich Donnelly William J.B. Dorn III John Romita Chris Ecker Dave Siegel Ron Frantz Marc Swayze Dann Thomas Bill Fugate Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Carl Gafford Dr. Michael J. Dave Gantz Janet Gilbert Vassallo Michael Gray Hames Ware Jennifer Hamerlinck Bob Wiener John Wright Peter Hansen Russ Heath

1994--2004

NEW ADDRESS FOR TWOMORROWS: 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614 PHONE 919/449-0344 • FAX 919/449-0327

The Short and Happy Atlas Age of Super-Heroes (1953-55) Section

Contents

Writer/Editorial: The Pillars of Atlas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Young Men’s Adventures. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Roy Thomas’ very personal take on the Timely/Marvel Hero Revival. “I’d Forgotten I’d Ever Done It!”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 Russ Heath doesn’t even remember his one and only “Human Torch” story. “Captain America Was a Dirty Name!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 John Romita talks to Jim Amash about the first super-hero he ever drew. “Fighting Fire with Fire!”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 Dick Ayers tells still more about his halcyon days on The Human Torch. “IStanWish Wal-Mart Sold Memory!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 Lee recalls—well, just a little bit—the 1950s super-hero revival. Comic Crypt: Adventures into the Unknown Covers!. . . . . . . 39 Michael T. Gilbert on unpublished 1950s covers of the American Comics Group. Al Jaffee & Friends Section. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Some months ago, collector Bob Wiener sent us truly astonishing black-&white photocopies of John Romita’s first 6-page “Captain America” story—done in 1953 for Young Men #24. Even more amazing was that, instead of the splash we’d known for half a century, these copies turned out to sport John’s unused and never-published splash panel, which had been replaced by one by artist Mort Lawrence. There were a couple of other variant panels, as well. Being the greedy cuss he is, Roy T. not only determined to print the splash as a cover—but even managed to persuade his kind-hearted 1960s-70s colleague to draw new images of Human Torch and Sub-Mariner, so this issue’s cover could feature all three of Timely/Atlas’ 1950s heroes, utilizing art done in both 1953 and 2003—exactly fifty years apart! (For the original splash in black-&-white, see p. 20.) Thanks, Bob, for something Roy’s been hoping to see ever since he learned John had drawn his own, unseen splash for YM #24! [1953 art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; 2003 art ©2004 John Romita; Captain America, Red Skull, Human Torch, & Sub-Mariner TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: We’ve showcased this Romita panel from Young Men #26 before, but since it’s the only one in all 23 of the 1953-55 Atlas super-hero mags that showed the three heroes together in the same scene, it seemed the only choice to start off this issue. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

The Pillars of Atlas

In medieval times, men feared to venture beyond the so-called Pillars of Hercules—the European and African promontories towering over the Strait of Gibraltar.

Our mascot (and Alter’s buddy) Captain Ego, in a drawing by his creator unpublished since Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #7, 1964. [Art ©2004 Estate of Biljo White; Alter & Capt. Ego TM & ©2004 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.]

In this issue, I embarked upon a less venturesome voyage, which still caused me plenty of problems. I hadn’t realized, when first planning to run Jim Amash’s splendid Al Jaffee interview in the same issue with long-projected coverage of the Timely/Atlas 1950s super-hero revival, that those two features would fill the mag to the brim and I’d have to jettison virtually everything else I’d ordinarily include—not unlike the way Groucho, Chico, and Harpo cannibalized all the other cars of the locomotive to keep the engine fires stoked up in The Marx Brothers Go West! For instance, since there’d been no letters section in #34, I’d planned to double up this time—now I’ll have to triple up in #36! Happily, Alex Toth, too, will return next month, as will other delayed items.

In the meantime, we beg your indulgence… and hope you’ll enjoy this issue’s extensive Timely/Atlas/Marvel coverage (plus the Comic Fandom Archives, Comic Crypt, and FCA departments) nearly as much as we enjoyed putting it all together for you! We’d gush a bit more… but we’re outta room! Bestest,

COMING IN MAY NOW MONTHLY!

JULIUS SCHWARTZ (1915-2004) As this issue was being readied, we were saddened to learn of the passing of this great DC editor, without whom the Silver Age of Comics (not to mention Alter Ego) might never have existed. At the very least, both would have taken far different, and probably lesser, forms if not for Julie. Surely most of A/E’s readers know of his many accomplishments—in particular the revitalization of the super-hero concept between 1956 and the early 1960s—and already the Comics Buyer’s Guide has devoted two fine issues (#1580–1) to the man and his achievements. A/E, for its part, will publish a special edition devoted to Julius Schwartz—#38, just three months hence. It will include previously unpublished interviews with Julie, guest tributes, and examinations of his contributions both to the comic book and to comics fandom… between a pair of gorgeous new covers by two master artists who worked with him in the Golden and Silver Ages: Carmine Infantino and Irwin Hasen. The better part of a hundred pages devoted to Julius Schwartz. But it won’t be nearly enough… merely a down payment on what we all owe to this titan who left us, even at 88, far too soon.

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The Short and Happy Atlas Age of Super-Heroes part one

Young Men’s Adventures

A Personal and Idiosyncratic Guide to the Timely/Atlas Hero Revival

by Roy Thomas [NOTE: All issue information is placed in boxes on the pages that follow. In the individual storylistings, the name of the feature is listed first, then the story title (if any), followed by the page count, and name of the artist—e.g., “Captain America: “Back from the Dead!” – 6 pp. – John Romita.” Additional information is given elsewhere.]

watched beloved super-heroes disappear one by one.

It had been three years since the demise of All-Star; only Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and a few backups still endured at my favorite company, National/DC. Quality had just John Romita’s three-panel sequence featuring Sub-Mariner, Human Torch, and Captain America, Plastic Man and from Young Men #26, reproduced from photocopies of the original art—and clearly using versions Blackhawk left; I of Namor and Torch in YM #24 as reference. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] didn’t yet know that the last issue of Doll Man had gone on sale two months earlier. Nor did I suspect that the final comics starring Captain Marvel and his Fawcett family were already on the presses. Osterloh’s Book Store was a Mecca for me as a youngster in the late Over at the company I always thought of as “Marvel Comics,” 1940s and early 1950s. When my parents went shopping on Saturday because those words sometimes appeared on its covers in the late ’40s, I nights in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, ten miles from our home in the had read the exploits of the Torch, Cap, and Namor in their solo mags county seat of Jackson, I’d seize the chance to hit the Woolworth and and in Marvel Mystery Comics from 1945 or ’46 till 1949, when all had Newberry 5¢-and-10¢ stores in search of comic books. been abruptly discontinued. And then there was Osterloh’s. But now, suddenly—the three Marvel heroes were back! Mostly, I bought real books in that wondrous emporium on the next “The HUMAN TORCH Returns,” screamed the topline above that block down from the five-and-dimes: books about animals (both fact comic’s odd title—Young Men. I had no idea which young men had and fiction), Oz, Grossett and Dunlap’s Tarzan, and (God help me) appeared in its preceding 23 issues, nor did I care. I paid my thin dime Bomba the Jungle Boy… as well as Pogo paperbacks and the proud but and made off with my booty into the night, before it could fade before lonely single volume of Jack Kent’s King Aroo. But through at least the my eyes like a mirage. mid-’50s, Osterloh’s carried comics, too. A smaller selection than Woolworth and Newberry, yet I can vividly recall buying several treasures there, such as 1950’s AllStar Comics #55 with its stark cover of Hawkman and Green Lantern attacking a Young Men #24 space ship against the blackness of space… (Dec. 1953)

A Frankly Self-indulgent Preface

Back from the Dead!

And Young Men #24. In the autumn 1953 moment when, at age twelve, I beheld on Osterloh’s racks (which started at floor level) that Atlasglobed cover with its powerful image of The Human Torch hurling fireballs that burn a hole in a building while onlookers gape—with small images of Captain America, Bucky, and “Submariner” [sic] at the bottom, each mentioned twice, for good measure—hope flared up in me. The kind of hope that had been gradually ebbing since the late 1940s, as I had slowly

Cover: Carl Burgos Human Torch: “The Return of… The Human Torch” – 9 pp. – Russ Heath (Torch figure on splash by Carl Burgos) Captain America: “Back from the Dead!” – 6 pp. – John Romita (splash page by Mort Lawrence) Sub-Mariner – 8 pp. – Bill Everett (signed)

REPRINTING: The cover and all three stories were reprinted in Marvel Super-Heroes #20 (May 1969)—and in the 1997 trade paperback The Golden Age of Marvel [Vol. 1]. In the latter, the “Torch” story reproduced overly dark, because of last-minute production problems.

A Guide to the Timely/Atlas Hero Revival

Even as a kid, I’d realized Marvel’s stories weren’t generally as good as those of DC, Fawcett, and Quality. It was the three heroes I liked. Most of their stories looked and read pretty much alike to me. But Young Men #24, I realized at once, was different… better… both in terms of art and story! The former, in particular, struck me as uniformly good, if not downright superb… a judgment I’ve seen no reason to alter in the ensuing half-century. The entire cover and the splash-panel Torch figure (by Carl Burgos, I’d soon learn) were splendid re-creations of the flaming super-hero I’d known. But I noted right away that he looked quite different in the remaining eight-plus pages of his story. Their artist (Russ Heath, I’d learn, doing his one and only “Torch” tale ever) made him actually look like a man on fire, burning somehow without burning up—and I liked that approach, too. At age twelve I didn’t ponder the reasons for the dichotomy of styles within the same issue, story, and even panel. That would come later. The “Torch” splash continued from the cover scene, as he flew through the molten hole he’d burned to attack several armed thugs. His origin was retold in a two-panel sequence that had him literally “born in a test tube,” a simplified version the android origin that I’d read retold in the final issue of Marvel Mystery Comics (#92, June 1949). According to YM #24, the Torch had incinerated Adolf Hitler in 1945 (a nice touch I’d learn was a new addition—at the time, I didn’t even know Hitler’s corpse had been burned), and he had picked up a fiery young sidekick in 1949 (though I knew for a fact that Toro had been around by the mid’40s.) I was impressed at how the story accounted believably for the pair’s four-year absence. They’d been captured by a criminal syndicate using the flame-dousing Solution X-R obtained from “a country behind the

Iron Curtain”—and we all knew which one that was, didn’t we, boys and girls? The Torch had been buried beneath the Nevada desert until freed by an atomic test—while Toro had been turned over to the Communists. The Torch’s 1940s pal Police Chief Wilson informed him of “mysterious streaks of fire our G.I.’s in Korea have been seeing,” months after the truce ended the war there, so the Torch streaked to Asia and freed the brainwashed Toro from the Reds’ insidious spell. The two of them then rescued Wilson’s daughter Mary from a Commie spy, and they were back in business! The “Captain America” story was a shorter and lesser effort, though well-drawn. Years later I’d learn that, except for the splash panel (drawn by Mort Lawrence—see p. 20), the art was by John Romita, whose name I already knew from other Marvel/Atlas comics. I’d even encountered The Red Skull once, in 1949, when Cap fought him in hell itself. In 1953 I learned that, “in the early days of the war” (clearly World War II, since Nazis are mentioned), a “certain weakling” had been changed by a serum into a perfect physical specimen—Captain America. The writer of this script, too, had done his homework; indeed, some of the dialogue in the origin flashback is lifted directly from Captain America #1, not that I knew that then. Steve Rogers, the suburban New York high school teacher who relates the above origin to his class at the Lee School (ahem!), was once Captain America; his ward (and student) Bucky had been Cap’s young ally. Steve insists: “Captain America’s work is done! There’s no need for his return!” He’s wrong, of course. That very day, The Red Skull takes hostages at the U.N. and demands the Secretary-General be turned over to him. Precisely how that would’ve helped him launch “a crime wave like the world’s never seen before—working with the Reds in murder… sabotage” is not made clear, let alone how the ultimate Nazi had cosied up to the Commies. Needless to say, Cap and Bucky return, the Skull and his cohorts are crushed, and Cap decides he’s “back to stay.” I believed him.

The issue’s third tale, “Sub-Mariner,” was equally a revelation. I couldn’t for the life of me read the artist’s weird signature (I finally decided it was “Bill Enereh”—and so he remained, in my mind, for eight years, until a fellow English teacher informed me that last name was actually “Everett,” and that he’d created the hero); but the art and story elated me. When freighters are sunk at sea and Red treachery suspected, a good-looking blonde named Betty Dean contacts her old buddy Prince Namor, the SubMariner. Again things are brought up to date, recounting his hybrid birth in a long caption, telling how he hated humans till she convinced him to help the U.S. during WWII and that “a few years ago [he] went back to his home at the South Pole to rebuild his lost

Young Men’s Adventures

empire.” A masterful page-plus of panels that told me more about the life and times of Namor than I’d learned in several years of reading SubMariner in the late ’40s! [See p. 35.] The rest of the story is a bit of a letdown, with the villains turning out to be not Reds but Venusian robots out to conquer Earth. But I was impressed by Namor’s wearing a suit and tie in several panels; once he and Betty even wear striped nautical shirts (identical except for her plunging neckline). I’d never before seen a super-hero appear in public in “civvies.” The one sour note was that Namor’s ankles no longer sported tiny wings as in the 1940s. He could no longer fly in the mid-’40s comics I’d read, but I’d always figured the wings helped him swim faster. Besides, they were as much a part of his unique “look” as that triangular head and those marvelous pointy ears and arching eyebrows—and those new, blue-scaled trunks, so much more visual than the lackluster black-withyellow-stripes jobs he’d worn in the ’40s! Young Men #24 was the highlight of the year 1953 to this young comics fan, and I was only disappointed that I’d have to wait two whole months to read more about The Human Torch, Captain America, and Sub-Mariner.

Explosion in Four Colors Eight weeks later, you’d better believe I was on hand when Young Men #25 came on sale. For reasons still unknown, someone had decided The Human Torch was the most saleable of the three revived heroes, even though, as I’d learn years later, Captain America had been easily Timely’s best-selling mag through much of the 1940s.

This time, the “Torch” story was drawn (and perhaps also written?) wholly by the cover artist. This was the classic Torch, with vertical lines inside his flaming form making him look hotter than Toro’s emptier outline—and the yellow auras around their blazing bodies when they flew were a definite improvement on late-1940s depictions. In the story, old men were given youth in exchange for working for a criminal gang... not knowing that, after a month, they’d crumble into dust. I must’ve liked that plot; forty years later I, er, adapted it for an issue of Marvel’s The Secret Defenders.

Young Men #25 (Feb. 1954) Cover: Carl Burgos Human Torch: “The Return of… The Human Torch” – 8 pp. – Carl Burgos Captain America: “Top Secret!” – 7 pp. – John Romita (signed) Sub-Mariner: 8 pp. – Bill Everett (signed) REPRINTING: The “Torch” story was reprinted in Marvel Super-Heroes #14 (May 1968), “Captain America” in MSH #13 (March 1968), and “SubMariner” in Giant-Size Defenders #2 (Oct. 1974). The entire issue, including cover, was reprinted in a simulated edition in 1994.

“Captain America” was signed this time—by John Romita. Even then I recognized the influence of Milt Caniff, whose Terry and the Pirates I’d admired in Harvey’s comic book reprints. I didn’t fully realize that John was striving (with considerable success) to amalgamate the styles of Caniff and Jack Kirby, who I’d learn was one of Cap’s creators; but I liked the way Cap seemed to leap out of some panels, his boots overlapping the borders. And I loved that final, oft-reprinted panel in which Cap, Bucky, and a scientist stand approvingly watching a nuclear explosion on the desert: “A glorious sight,” says Cap, “when it’s on our side in the struggle for world peace!” It didn’t occur to me—or to John or the writer, apparently—that at that distance all three would have been killed instantly. The “Sub-Mariner” story by “Bill Enereh” is a

John Romita

broke down. It was so sad, because he was such a great and very talented guy. JA: I know I’ve done this before, but I just can’t end this without telling you how grateful I am to you for all that you did to help me become a pro. You really went out of your way at times for me. I remember you called me up long distance once, saying you didn’t have time right then to mark up my samples, so you decided to spend a few minutes telling me what to concentrate on. ROMITA: I appreciate that. It means a lot to me to hear that. It always makes me feel great when a guy tells me that I was responsible for him sticking with the business and not giving up. It makes my day, because it means that all those hours of working in the city were worth it. I helped you because you had talent and just needed some help—and you listened to advice. JA: How could I not, when it came from you? You knew how to give honest, direct criticism. You put me on the right track by telling me were I was going wrong. ROMITA: That’s what I was after. Virginia used to tell me I was tough, but I said, “At least I’ll set them on the right track.” I’ll tell you the

truth: if you ever heard me go over my own artwork, you’d hear me tearing it apart. Half the stuff I did was nowhere near where I wanted it to be. I was as hard on myself as I was on anybody else, and I never was cruel to anyone else. JA: I’ll certainly vouch for that! A lot of what I do today is because of you. Not only that, you’ve done the same for a lot of other people and you deserve recognition for your good works. ROMITA: Thank you very much. That makes a big difference to me, when I find out that what I did paid off for someone. JA: You know, I grew up with your work and admiring you, and I don’t know if I can express to you how it felt to have stood there while you were helping me. ROMITA: I used to feel that way, too. Once I was on a bus at Disneyland with Frank Frazetta and a bunch of young artists who were working for CrossGen. I could hear them talking behind me, saying, “I can’t believe we’re on a bus with John Romita.” I said, “You want to know something funny? I can’t believe I’m sitting on a bus with Frank Frazetta.” [mutual laughter] That shows you that we all have those moments.

We printed all three splashes from Captain America #78 with our big Romita interview back in Alter Ego #9, so here’s a pair of action-packed story pages from that issue. At left, Cap and Bucky battle the Commie super-villain Electro on a giant typewriter straight out of a Bill Finger Batman script—while, at right, Cap literally tries to make time stand still. Alas, that was beyond even the power of the Sentinel of Liberty, and after #78 he went back into mothballs for a decade. But you can’t keep Captain America down—and since 1964 he’s been back for forty years, and is still going strong! [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Short and Happy Atlas Age of Super-Heroes part four

“Fighting Fire With Fire”

DICK AYERS Tells Still More about His Halcyon Days on The Human Torch Interview Conducted by Roy Thomas

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

[INTRO: Only a few months ago, in our Christmas issue (#31), we ran an extended interview with veteran illustrator Dick Ayers. However, we had no intention of putting together this special section without talking again to this artist who had drawn well over a dozen “Human Torch” stories for that revival. We’ve tried as much as possible to avoid duplication of what was said and shown in A/E #31, which we suggest you compare with what follows. In order to be able to discuss all his 1954 stories, I made photocopies of all of them, and of one or two other items besides, and mailed them to him a few days before I phoned him on Jan. 15, 2004. Dick refers to these photocopies at the beginning of the interview. —Roy.] DICK AYERS: I appreciated seeing all that art, because I don’t have all the issues, and what I do have is packed away, and it’s too much work to get to it. RT: That’s why, in the 1960s, I had my run of the revival issues bound in three volumes, so I could set them on a bookshelf and not have them packed away in boxes. I thought the photocopies might refresh your memory, better than our just talking about them, with me mentioning details you couldn’t check for yourself. AYERS: I can see, like we discussed before, where Carl Burgos Torch and Toro figures cover up the ones I drew in my first issue [Human Torch #36]. For some of the splash panels, he did the whole thing— either he or Sol Brodsky or somebody. And I remember that, at the time, it would upset me very much. For instance, the one where the bulldozer is trying to run down the Torch… and the one with the giant vampire bat on it, too. RT: Interesting—’cause those two are in Human Torch #37, your second issue. You’re saying someone else did those entire splash panels? Burgos? AYERS: Whoever. Stan would never say anything. But when he assigned me to the Torch, he sent me a photocopy of Russ Heath’s story and said, “This is the way we want the Torch to look.” RT: Strange. Stan seems to have wanted you to do the Russ Heath version—yet only the single story by Heath ever had the Torch look that way. Even your later version looked more like the Burgos Torch than the Heath version. A Burgos Torch figure is even pasted over Russ’ Torch on his splash page. Stan must’ve changed his mind early—or else maybe publisher Martin Goodman didn’t like it and said, “Let’s get back to the way he was.” But we’ll never probably know.

Dick Ayers at an exhibit of comic art (including his own) at the Cartoon Museum in Rye, New York, circa 1985—and the splash of the lead story from Human Torch #36 (seen on the wall behind him), repro’d from the original art, courtesy of Ethan Roberts, who has perhaps the largest collection of Ayers art on the planet. Dick says that “I did everything on that page except Toro. That was a paste-up probably done by Carl Burgos.” Photo courtesy of Darlin’ Dick. [Art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

AYERS: By the time I got to the stories set in Korea, I was really drawing in the action. In fact, I can see what was coming in Sgt. Fury later. That was what Stan liked—that action. I had them flaming into the jet planes, helping the planes fly [in HT #38]. I loved that kind of stuff. RT: I always liked the scene where the Chinese Communist soldier is trying to bayonet the Torch from the back, and first his bayonet and then his rifle vanish into the Torch, until the soldier himself is swallowed up totally in the fire. I guess that’s the way it was written. AYERS: Oh, yes, pretty much, and I’d just exaggerate what was written. RT: Well, to go through the stories more or less in order—I presume you were familiar with the Torch and the other heroes from the

Dick Ayers

Another rare find! Ethan Roberts sent us photocopies of a tier of original art (top) from the “Ape” story in Human Torch #36—and it turned out that the Burgos Torch & Toro paste-overs had long since fallen off, revealing the Ayers figures beneath. At this point, Dick was probably still aiming for something closer to the Russ Heath approach he had seen. The tier as published is seen below. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

RT: Did he do any real penciling on the work he did with you? AYERS: Here’s what I did: I penciled, but I penciled more or less like you described as the way Steve Ditko does. I just laid out the page, but a little tight, tight outline—stuff like I did for Joe Orlando over at DC later. And then I’d take my brush or pen, and I’d outline the stuff. So then Ernie would take the page and would erase everything—and then he would heavy the lines, and then he would finish up the buildings, and all that type of stuff, and get that detail. And it worked great. So we could handle three accounts and we did, right up until that point. You got me looking at this stuff, and I see what Ernie did and remember he was very valuable to me, yeah. And it was just a sign of the times, whether it reached a point where, well, I had to let him work at home instead of making the trip all the way up here, because the rates were getting lower and lower. But we had some good times together.

Ayers at war! At left, the final page from the Korea-set “Playing with Fire!” in Captain America #78—and a recent illo of Sgt. Nick Fury, whose World War II exploits he drew during the 1960s-70s in Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos. Dick’s still drawing away, and invites readers to check out his e-mailing list, moderated by Pete Stefanowicz, at <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ ayers-l>—or to contact him directly at (914) 949-6275 or via e-mail at dickayers@webtv.net to commission a re-creation or other piece of art… rates negotiable! [Torch art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Sgt. Fury art ©2004 Dick Ayers; Sgt. Fury TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Short and Happy Atlas Age of Super-Heroes part five

“I Wish Wal-Mart Sold Memory!” STAN LEE Remembers–––Well, Just a Little Bit–––the 1950s Revival

Interview Conducted by Roy Thomas

[NOTE: In January 2004 my longtime boss and mentor Stan Lee kindly agreed to talk to me on the phone about the revival, although he warned me in advance—as if I needed warning at this stage—that he had a notoriously poor memory for things that had happened so many years ago, and of which he had kept no written records. Later, he generously responded to one or two additional points by e-mail; those responses have been edited into this piece. —Roy.]

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

’40s—and in those days [publisher] Martin Goodman made all those decisions. All that would have happened would have been that he’d have said to me, “Stan, bring back the Torch.” And half of the times I didn’t know why. Probably more than half of the times, I had no idea why he did it. We were just like a production house in those days. He said, “Put out some books,” and I’d put out the books.

RT: One reason I loved that revival at age 12-13, and remain enthusiastic about it to Smilin’ Stan’s never been above a little humor at this day, is that it was handled logically, and his own expense, as on the occasion this photo of RT: I just have a few questions, since you said with acknowledgement and respect for what himself was taken at the 1995 Stan Lee Roast held you wouldn’t remember anything. Not that I had come before. It was explained in Young at the Chicago Comicon. We printed the whole blame you, after fifty years and all the comics Men #24 what each of the principals had been affair in Alter Ego V3#1. Here, we’ve surrounded you’ve edited. Still—do you recall at all why up to since 1949—the Torch buried underhim with splashes by Carl Burgos, John Romita, it was that, four years after the demise of The ground till an A-bomb blast freed him, Steve and Bill Everett, taken from a 1994 premium reprint Human Torch, Captain America, and SubRogers teaching high school, Namor going of Young Men #25, the second “Atlas hero revival” Mariner, all of a sudden in ’53 it was decided back to the South Pole. It was treated as if, issue. [Art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.] to bring them back? I’ve always assumed it hey, these guys vanished four years ago, this was because of the success of the Superman TV show. is what happened to them, and now they’re back! There had to be some central hand that dictated how the heroes (and even The Red LEE: Gee, I didn’t even know they had been away. I didn’t know they Skull) were brought back, whether it was you or someone working were brought back; I don’t remember that at all. editorially under you. RT: I can see where you wouldn’t, because, after all, those heroes had LEE: Well, if I were editor at the time, I must have had something to do been going for nearly a decade while you were editor—and by ’53 with the way those characters were brought back, although I don’t they’d been gone for only four. remember. However, as I said, the one who would have decided to bring them back would’ve been Martin Goodman. LEE: But I can tell you this: you’re talking about the early ’50s, late

there was a lot of opposition to comics. That was during the anti-horror movement, and maybe the Torch burning people was considered too frightening, so it was decided to kill books like Captain America and Human Torch. Do you remember anything about any real opposition to Torch? LEE: That could very well be the reason. For years, people would say to me at different times, “Gee, aren’t you nervous about The Human Torch? I mean, a kid could get some matches and start a fire.” So I always had that in the back of my mind. RT: I also remember that in 1967 you told me that, around the time of the Korean War, you learned that Timely’s comics were being kept out of PXs on some military bases, because they were considered detrimental to the war effort, and that was costing the company sales. Do you remember anything about that? LEE: I would have thought they would have loved our books. They made such heroes out of our soldiers.

Stan Lee

have learned only fairly recently, there were two quite different kinds of Timely/Atlas war comics during the 1950s. The ones from around the time of the Korean War were very much “war is hell” stories… gritty and realistic, often fairly downbeat. It was later, after the 1953 truce, that the Combat Kelly/Combat Casey type of story that was the forerunner of Sgt. Fury became the standard. LEE: Maybe I didn’t have much to do with the “war is hell”-type stories. Maybe Don Rico or Ernie Hart—and there was another guy. Remember Hank Chapman? He did a lot of war stories. He was an assistant editor, too. RT: He even signed some war stories. Fans who really study and collect Timely/Atlas comics feel Hank Chapman’s war stories were some of the best ones. I don’t think you wrote a lot of war stories then. At least, there aren’t many with your name on them. LEE: No, I never really cared for war stories until I did Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos. I enjoyed doing that with Jack Kirby.

RT: Well, the thing is, as I myself (Center:) In Young Men #26, the call went out (from the villain, as it turned out) for Human Torch, Namor, and Captain America, and the resuscitated Timely “Big Three” joined forces in the Romita-illo’d “Cap” tale—for one whole panel. But, though the Timely/Atlas revival lasted only one brief year—two, if you count the longer run of Sub-Mariner alone—it sewed seeds which came to fruition in the 1960s with what Stan Lee dubbed “The Marvel Age of Comics.” Yet the 1953-55 resurgence deserves to be celebrated not merely for what it heralded, but for what it was—a run of quality comics, often well-written, and even more often wonderfully drawn, as per this trio of splashes from its final anthology outing, Men’s Adventures #28, by Dick Ayers, John Romita, and Bill Everett. [©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Adventures into the Unknown, Unknown Worlds, Forbidden Worlds, and Herbie were the most famous titles published by the American Comics Group from the 1940s through the 1960s. While ACG was never a major player in the comics field, editor Richard Hughes’ warm, friendly stories and lively letters pages made the company a favorite for many young fans in the ’50s and ’60s. Comic art expert Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., believes this unsigned Adventures into the Unknown cover may be by Ken Bald, who drew a number of ACG covers in the early ’50s. Later, he illustrated such comic strips as Dr. Kildare and Dark Shadows. This cover was probably drawn in 1952. [©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Al Jaffee

“It Was A Fun Time!”

AL JAFFEE Talks about His Years at Timely Comics–––and Why and How He Went MAD Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash [INTERVIEWER’S INTRODUCTION: Al Jaffee has ruined the value of more comic magazines than any man alive. Imagine how much your Mad magazines would be worth if you hadn’t spent all those years folding Al’s back covers up in order to see another picture! But Al’s Mad career is only one fold of his cartooning history. Al Jaffee has been tickling funny bones longer than many of us have been alive, and he’ll probably continue to do so for years to come. In the meantime, let’s peek back through the mists of time and let him reveal the secrets of his Timely Comics days, in one of the most informative interviews you’ll ever see on this subject. If it’s any consolation to those who have folded-up Mads at home, I got even by doing the same to Al’s telephone ear, even though he says he’s forgiven me for it. You’re a good sport, Al! Thanks a million! —Jim.]

“The Sunday Funnies Were Magic!” JIM AMASH: I’m always interested in the beginnings of creative people. Please tell me where and when you were born— and what got you interested in drawing. AL JAFFEE: 3-13-21, and I was born in Savannah, Georgia. I’ve been drawing as far back as I can remember. What got me interested as a little kid in Savannah was my father. He was a great copier. He’d get the Sunday funnies, and copy all the funny characters in order to entertain me and my brother Harry. If you were a little kid around the time that I was, the Sunday funny papers were so attractive with their full, beautiful color. Today, kids have color television, color video games, and the like, so that today’s color funnies aren’t such an outstanding event. In my day, the Sunday funnies were magic! So Harry and I became artists. JA: When you started drawing, were you also writing your own stories?

Al Jaffee, flanked by art representing the two genres dominant at Timely during the World War II years: super-hero and humor. (Left:) Alex Schomburg’s cover for All Winners Comics #8 (Spring 1943). (Above:) A latter-day Jaffee drawing of Inferior Man, whom Al created—though for Quality, not Timely—plus a pair of nefarious villains. Al says he feels he “could never draw well enough to do” adventure heroes, so he stuck with humor—as well as writing and editing. In any event, everybody came out a winner, including Mad magazine! Photo & Jaffee art courtesy of Al. [All Winners art ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; other art ©2004 Al Jaffee.]

JAFFEE: Oh, yeah. I made up a character named “Mikey Mouse.” When you’re a kid, you think, “Gee, if I just change the name of the character, that’ll make it an original idea.” We all did it, but then you become more sophisticated and realize that “Mikey Mouse” is exactly like “Mickey Mouse.” So you go on to something else. JA: I’ve noticed that, whenever I’ve talked to adventure artists, they were influenced by adventure strips. And humor artists were generally inspired by humor features. JAFFEE: I think that’s true. My influence goes back to artist Rube Goldberg’s Boob McNutt and all the funny strips, although the adventure strips like Little Orphan Annie and Roy Crane’s Wash Tubbs were important and exciting to me. I really loved the adventures of Wash Tubbs with those sort-of European backgrounds. What predominated in those days, it seems to me, was that the adventure strips were generally drawn in a comic style, like Buck

“It Was A Fun Time!”

Two future Mad-men! Al Jaffee (left) and Will Elder hangin’ in the high school cafeteria (at the School of Music and Art) as teenagers in the 1930s, surrounded by a montage of panels from the Depression-era comic strips Al mentions. [Clockwise from top left:] Boob McNutt by Rube Goldberg, co-starring Mike and Ike (“They Look Alike”) (10-15-33)… Little Orphan Annie by Harold Gray (2-4-34)… Wash Tubbs with Captain Easy in Pandemonia, by Roy Crane (1933)… that crazy Buck Rogers stuff by writer Phil Nowlan & artist Dick Calkins (1929)… Flash Gordon by Alex Raymond (8-12-34)… Pat Ryan and Burma in Milt Caniff’s Terry and the Pirates (8-5-36)… and Jungle Jim, who doesn’t look a bit like Johnny Weismuller in this Alex Raymond panel from 1935. Photo courtesy of Al Jaffee. [Comic strip art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]

Rogers. The characters were funny characters, even though they did serious things. Then along came the super-adventure features like Flash Gordon, Terry and the Pirates, and Jungle Jim. They really started to capture my imagination, but I could never draw well enough to do those, so I stuck to humor.

“Opportunities… Were Exploding All over the Place” JA: Dave Gantz told me that you and he went to the School of Music and Art together. JAFFEE: Yes, we did. I went to school with Dave Gantz, Harvey Kurtzman, Will Elder, Al Feldstein, John Severin. A host of other guys went there, too. Students at Music and Art came from all five of the boroughs. It happens that Gantz, Elder, and I lived in the Bronx. Feldstein came from Brooklyn, and Kurtzman from the Bronx, but he was younger than Dave, Bill, and me by a couple of years. Dave, Bill, and I were classmates. We spent a lot of time together. Will Elder and I were very close friends, because we only lived a block from each other.

Dave lived much farther uptown and used to get into trouble on his own. He was a pugnacious little guy; no one could challenge Dave without getting a response. Will and I were more peaceful sorts. JA: Dave tells me Harvey was the shyest of your group. JAFFEE: Yes, Harvey was very introspective. He was a very serious humorist, brilliant right from the moment he arrived at Music and Art. I vividly remember seeing a drawing put up on a bulletin board of Harvey Kurtzman’s version of a school boatride. It was very, very well done and very funny to those of us who aspired to be cartoonists, mainly Willy and me. Dave Gantz was a serious artist. He was a painter and did portraits and stuff like that. Dave did not have an ambition to become a cartoonist, but Willy and I had that ambition from the beginning. When we saw Harvey Kurtzman’s stuff, we said, “Who the hell is this kid? He’s challenging us? He dares!” But he was a brilliant guy. JA: Were you more interested in doing magazine cartooning or newspaper cartooning? JAFFEE: To tell you the truth, we were living through the Depression,

Alter Ego #35