Issuu

Roy Thomas’ Thunderstruck Comics Fanzine $

5.95

In the USA

No. 16 July 2002

COVER ARTIST

Alex Ross FAWCETT FANTASIES TAKE FLIGHT!

PLUS:

Also:

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION!

John Buscema Gene Colan John Romita Marie Severin

OTTO & JACK BINDER C.C. BECK •MARC SWAYZE HARVEY KURTZMAN •JOE SIMON JIM MOONEY •MICHAEL T. GILBERT STAN LEE •RAMONA FRADON MARK EVANIER • BILL SCHELLY And More!!

TwoMorrows Publishing Update 15%

SAVE

SUMMER 2011

WHE N YO ORD U ONL ER INE!

BACK ISSUE #51

BACK ISSUE #53

BACK ISSUE #54

• Digital Editions available: $2.95-$3.95! • Back Issue & Alter Ego now with color! • Lower international shipping rates!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “AllInterview Issue”! Part 2 of an exclusive STEVE ENGLEHART interview (continued from ALTER EGO #103)! “Pro2Pro” interviews between SIMONSON & LARSEN, MOENCH & WEIN, and comics letterers KLEIN & CHIANG. Plus JOHN OSTRANDER, MICHAEL USLAN, and longtime DC color artist ADRIENNE ROY! Cover by Englehart collaborator MARSHALL ROGERS!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

ORDER AT: www.twomorrows.com

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Nov. 2011

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Jan. 2012

THE BEST IN COMICS AND LEGO MAGAZINES!

ALTER EGO #105

ALTER EGO #106

ALTER EGO #107

ALTER EGO #108

DRAW! #22

See comic art and script BEFORE and AFTER the Comics Code changes, with art by SIMON & KIRBY, DITKO, BUSCEMA, SINNOTT, GOULD, COLE, STERANKO, KRIGSTEIN, O’NEIL, GLANZMAN, ORLANDO, WILLIAMSON, HEATH, and others! Plus: FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, JIM AMASH interviews Timely/Atlas artist CAL MASSEY, and a new cover by JOSH MEDORS!

DICK GIORDANO through the 1960s—from freelance years and Charlton “Action-Heroes” to his first stint at DC! Art by DITKO, APARO, BOYETTE, MORISI, McLAUGHLIN, GIL KANE, and others, Dick’s final convention panel with STEVE SKEATES and ROY THOMAS, JIM AMASH interviews Charlton artist TONY TALLARICO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and ROY ALD, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, GIORDANO cover, and more!

Big BATMAN issue, with an unused Golden Age cover by DICK SPRANG! SHEL DORF interviews SPRANG and JIM MOONEY, with rare and unseen Batman art by BOB KANE, JERRY ROBINSON, WIN MORTIMER, SHELLY MOLDOFF, CHARLES PARIS, and others! Part II of the TONY TALLARICO interview by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

1970s Bullpenner WARREN REECE talks about Marvel Comics and working with EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, STAN LEE, MARIE SEVERIN, ADAMS, FRIEDRICH, ROY THOMAS, and others, with rare art! DEWEY CASSELL spotlights Golden Age artist MIKE PEPPE, with art by TOTH, ANDRU, TUSKA, CELARDO, & LUBBERS, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, cover by EVERETT & BURGOS, and more!

Interview with inker SCOTT WILLIAMS from his days at Marvel and Image to his work with JIM LEE, and PATRICK OLIFFE demos how he produces Spider-Girl, Mighty Samson, and digital comics. Also, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, art supply reviews by “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Oct. 2011

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Dec. 2011

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Jan. 2012

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships March 2012

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95 • Ships Feb. 2012

LEE & KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS (KIRBY COLLECTOR #58)

Special double-size book examines the first decade of the FANTASTIC FOUR, and the events that put into motion the Marvel Age of Comics! New interviews with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others, with a wealth of historical information and Kirby artwork!

(128-page tabloid trade paperback) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • Ships Nov. 2011 (Subscribers: counts as two issues)

KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

BRICKJOURNAL #17

BRICKJOURNAL #18

BRICKJOURNAL #19

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

LEGO SPACE WAR issue! A STARFIGHTER BUILDING LESSON by Peter Reid, WHY SPACE MARINES ARE SO POPULAR by Mark Stafford, a trip behind the scenes of LEGO’S NEW ALIEN CONQUEST SETS that hit store shelves earlier this year, plus JARED K. BURKS’ column on MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATION, building tips, event reports, our step-by-step “YOU CAN BUILD IT” INSTRUCTIONS, and more!

Go to Japan with articles on two JAPANESE LEGO FAN EVENTS, plus take a look at JAPAN’S SACRED LEGO LAND, Nasu Highland Park—the site of the BrickFan events and a pilgrimage site for many Japanese LEGO fans. Also, a feature on JAPAN’S TV CHAMPIONSHIP OF LEGO, a look at the CLICKBRICK LEGO SHOPS in Japan, plus how to get into TECHNIC BUILDING, LEGO EDUCATION, and more!

LEGO EVENTS ISSUE covering our own BRICKMAGIC FESTIVAL, BRICKWORLD, BRICKFAIR, BRICKCON, plus other events outside the US. There’s full event details, plus interviews with the winners of the BRICKMAGIC CHALLENGE competition, complete with instructions to build award winning models. Also JARED K. BURKS’ regular column on minifigure customizing, building tips, and more!

(84-page tabloid magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships Feb. 2012

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships Dec. 2011

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships Feb. 2012

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 • Ships April 2012

Vol. 3, No. 16 / July 2002

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editors John Morrow Jon B. Cooke

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comics Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists Marie Severin & Ramona Fradon Alex Ross

Cover Colorists Alex Ross Marie Severin & Tom Ziuko

Mailing Crew Russ Garwood, Glen Musial, Ed Stelli, Pat Varker, Loston Wallace

And Special Thanks to:

Sam Abbinanti Blake Bell Albert Becattini Al Bigley Bira Bill Black Jerry K. Boyd Lee Boyette Al Bradford Glenn Brays Jeff Brenna Tom Brevoort Mike Burkey Mrs. Dolores Buscema John Buscema, Jr. Gene & Adrienne Colan Dick Cole Bob Cosgrove Rob Daniels Tom DeFalco Shel Dorf Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ramona Fradon Paul Gambaccini Dave Gantz Jennifer T. Go Bob Greenberger Martin L. Greim Walt Grogan David G. Hamilton Bill Harper Richard Harpster Ron Harris Irwin Hasen Joe Heffernan Michael Hranek Dan Johnson Denis Kitchen Robert Knuist

Anthony Kowalik Adele Kurtzman Mort Leav Stan Lee Mathias Lorenz Larry Mahlstedt Joe & Nadia Mannarino Jim Mooney Brian K. Morris Michelle Nolan Owen & Susan O'Leary Jerry Ordway Mark Pacella Bruce Patterson Don Perlin Joe Phillips Virginia Provisiero Dan Raspler Mrs. Elmée B. Reit Ethan Roberts John Romita Alex Ross Clark Ross Fred Schneider David Sell Marie Severin Joe Simon Dave Simons Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Joel Thingvall Dann Thomas Bob Thoms Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Michael J. Vassallo Mike Vosburg Kevin Weremeychik Ed Zeno Mike Zeno

––in memoriam ––

Robert Kanigher & Tom Sutton

Contents Writer/Editorial: The Big Red Cheese–– and an Infinite Number of Mice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Journey to the Rock of Eternity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 The bountiful Binder brothers—Otto & Jack—a vintage interview re The Marvel Family.

Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel: Another View . . . . . . . . . 12 DC editor Bob Greenberger and A/E’s editor agree to disagree about the 1980s Shazam!

Word of Power. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Didja know there was nearly a 1990s Shazam! series before Jerry Ordway’s? Neither did we!

Comic Crypt: Harvey’s Heroes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 Michael T. Gilbert begins “EC Confidential” with a look at Kurtzman’s super-doers! re: (letters & corrections) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 Stan Lee, Joe Simon, and others weigh in.

P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA (FawcettCollectorsofAmerica) #75 . 33 Alex Ross, Sam Abbinanti, & Marc Swayze have their say. C.C. Beck art, too!

Marvel Bullpen Reunion Section. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: We’re particularly grateful to Alex Ross for generously allowing us to use this never-before-printed Mary Marvel painting, done for his Shazam! project a decade ago, as one of our covers. Mary never looked sexier than when Alex partly re-designed her. For more, see p. 40. [Art ©2002 Alex Ross; Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Above: This previously-unprinted Alex Ross sketch of Mary Marvel didn’t quite make it into our coverage of his early-’90s Shazam! project back in Alter Ego V3#3, but we weren’t gonna pass up a second chance! With thanks to the artist. [Art ©2002 Alex Ross; Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11 elsewhere). Eight-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $80 Canada, $88 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Otto and Jack Binder

Interview Conducted by Bob Cosgrove

Two Marvel-ous pairs of siblings! Otto Binder (seated) and his artist brother Jack, in 1973—flanked by Cap and Mary. The Cap panel is from original C.C. Beck art, courtesy of P.C. Hamerlinck, from America’s Greatest Comics #8 (Summer 1943); Jack’s Mary Marvel illo was first published in Comic Crusader #15. [Photo ©2002 Martin L. Greim. Mary Marvel art ©2002 estate of Jack Binder; Captain & Mary Marvel TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

Few comic creators have been the subject of as many articles and features as Jack and Otto Binder. And little wonder. First working with Harry Chesler, and then managing his own shop, Jack Binder oversaw the production of a massive amount of comic book art, as well as personally illustrating many features, most notably “Mary Marvel.” Most famous for his many “Captain Marvel” stories, Otto Binder also scripted for Timely, National, and just about every other company in the business, as well as maintaining a prodigious output as a sciencefiction writer.

wife Iona. Otto is a short, portly man, with greying hair and a pencilline mustache. Eager for news of the comic industry, he leans forward during conversations, anxious to capture each word, punctuating his comments with short, animated hand movements. As time was short, we went immediately to Jack Binder’s nearby home. On the way, I quizzed Otto concerning his reading habits, hoping to take his mind off Al’s driving. Otto said that he read mostly mystery and science-fiction, favoring Robert Heinlein as the top s-f writer. At that point, the van pulled into Jack’s.

You can’t imagine how delighted I was when Martin Greim suggested that he, Al Bradford, and I travel to upstate New York to visit the famous pair, who lived only minutes apart. My enthusiasm died a bit when I learned we were going in Al Bradford’s van. I was unable to decide whether the name “Dodge” emblazoned on the vehicle’s front was a trade name or advice to pedestrians. Playing on my indecision, my fellow fans seized me by the cape-side and hurled me into the van. We were off!

While we waited for the second Binder, Otto invited us to the barn out back to see the studio and workshop which Jack used to create the realistic figures and regalia used in the nearby historical museum, Fort William Henry. Otto led us up a narrow staircase to Jack’s studio loft, a small, well-lit room containing painting materials and sketchbooks. Nestling here and there throughout the studio were pieces from synthetic Binder models... a hand here, a soldier’s head there. At this point, Jack joined us and invited us into his home. After introducing us to his wife Olga, he bade us be seated in the living room. Pictures, large oil paintings, adorned the walls.

We left in the morning light of Massachusetts and arrived at Otto Binder’s home in the bright afternoon sunlight around 2:00. Suppressing our disappointment at not finding at least a yellow lightning insignia on the mailbox, we introduced ourselves to Mr. Binder and his gracious

Jack Binder, in snow-white hair and black, thick-framed glasses, is about the same height as his brother. He is an abrupt, dynamic man, who several times in the course of our conversation expressed his appreciation of Jim Steranko. This was not surprising. In attitude and

Journey to the Rock of Eternity demeanor, he might have been Jim Steranko forty years later, a Steranko of the Golden Age of Comics. Informed of a colleague’s departure from National, he said, “I don’t blame them a bit. They’re impossible to work for. I never worked for anyone on any terms but my own!” For a moment, Binder’s figure dissolved and I saw the figure of Jim Steranko, sitting on my hotel bed at a New York con, telling a jammed room that “If a publisher wants me, he’s got to meet my terms.”

The Interview BOB COSGROVE: Jack, as I understand it, one of your first jobs in the comic industry was as shop foreman for the Harry Chesler Studio. Could you tell us something of Chesler himself? He’s sort of an unknown figure to many fans. JACK BINDER: Well, my first impression of Harry Chesler, when I went down with Frank Gruber, who was then scripting western tales for him, to get the job, wasn’t a good one. I didn’t like the looks of the shop and turned him down. I went back a year later and Harry and I sat down for about an hour or so and talked. He said, “I don’t want you as an artist!” And I said, “Then what the hell do you want?” He then told me he wanted me to take charge, to take over the staff. I said, “OK, fine!” And that was all there was to it. The background of Harry Chesler is simply this: he was a man who was a visionary... a promoter... full of ideas... and still is to this day. He has a natural intuitive sense, to know when an artist has done his best. I’ve seen him have an artist do over a job fifteen times. He’d pay for it, but he’d know the artist was doing his best work. He knew what he wanted and he’d get it!

[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: As published in Comic Crusader #15, Marty asks about the “Book” of Eternity, and Otto is recorded as mentioning first the Book, then the famous Rock of Eternity. Though I seem to recall that there may have been such a book, I reasoned, based on Otto’s response, that Marty actually asked about the Rock of Eternity, and that the word was twice transcribed incorrectly. — Roy.] OTTO BINDER: I’m fairly certain that the Rock of Eternity was my idea. I seem to remember coming up with the plot all enthused, and [editor] Wendell Crowley was, too, when he heard it. It actually ties in scientifically with astronomical theory. As you know, according to the “Big Bang” theory, there was once a “primal atom” of super-condensed matter which exploded some 15 billion years ago or so. These particles then scattered to form the nebulas, etc. Now, along with this “point in space,” there was a “point in time,” too, at that very spot, wherever it was. Using poetic (literary) license, I simply postulated a fixed point in the universe where this primal atom existed in a timeless state before it exploded. The Rock [of Eternity] angle was just to make it pictorial. But, conceivably, there is some temporal/spacial point from which any portion of the universe, throughout time, can be reached. If you understand all this, tell me how it works, will you! BC: Jack, would you describe what your typical work day was like when you were running your own shop? JACK BINDER: It was 24 hours a day. OTTO BINDER: It started with him going crazy, and how did it end up?

Sivana seeks out the Rock of Eternity in Marvel Family #10 (April 1947), one of that mag’s greatest issues. Roy owns his own copy—but thank the six immortals for DC’s 1977 collection Shazam! From the 40’S to the 70’s! Script by Otto Binder, art by C.C. Beck. [©2002 DC Comics.]

Harry was originally sponsored by Bernarr MacFadden, in our first studio on 5th Avenue. Then there was some confusion between Harry and MacFadden and the shop broke up. I went on my own for a while, then several months later Harry called me up and we started a new organization. I think there were three times we sort of went off the deep end, primarily because Harry could always envision something different, something new, and he’d spend his last cent on it. He always had confidence that we could make it, and we did. Harry loved human beings. He was like a father to everybody. OTTO BINDER: Harry was a showman; he often did bizarre things, simply for the effect. He had pet alligators, little ones, in his office, and would feed them raw hamburger. He also served them minnows, but he would chop their heads off first, so the minnows wouldn’t suffer when the alligators ate them. MARTY GREIM: Of the many things connected with Captain Marvel, one of the more interesting is Shazam’s Rock of Eternity. Can you tell us something about this, Otto?

JACK BINDER: Well, I wound up crazier! I hired in units of four. I’d get enough work to near work the men I had to death, and when I had enough work for four more men, I’d hire them. So those four were kept busy, and my original crew was kept busy, too. I always had enough work, because I got the business first.

BC: What about your workday, Otto? OTTO BINDER: Well, as you know, a writer works alone. I’m a morning writer. I’d get going at 9 o’clock and work until I was groggy, which usually came about 2:00 in the afternoon. The rest of the day I’d take off to recover. BC: What kind of things did you read, Otto, when you were working in comics? OTTO BINDER: Everything but comics! Science-fiction, detective, and science books, mostly. MG: Otto, over the years you’ve worked on many characters. Which would you say was your favorite? OTTO BINDER: Without a doubt, Captain Marvel or any of The Marvel Family! Other than them, I’d say Captain America was one. He

Otto and Jack Binder mechanical drawing, pattern of line development, and design. Then, from there on, if they have any artistic talent, let it express itself. You’ve got to have complete involvement in what you’re doing... just give yourself to it, or it won’t happen. BC: Do you remember how you felt when you got the word that Captain Marvel was dead and that the Fawcett line was no longer in the comic book business?

As “Eando Binder,” Otto was a science-fiction scribe before he was a comic scripter. He created (see top left) the first sympathetic robot for numerous issues of Amazing Stories, including late-entry “Adam Link Saves the World” in the April 1942 issue. Later he adapted three of these in EC’s Weird ScienceFantasy, beginning in #27 (Jan.-Feb. 1955), with Joe Orlando art, as seen at right. [Photo ©2002 Martin L. Greim; Amazing Stories art ©2002 the respective copyright holder; EC art ©2002 William Gaines Agent.]

was always a free and easy character. I did scripts directly for Stan Lee, in those days. I didn’t work with Joe Simon until years later, when he was working for Harvey Publications. BC: Marty’s been working on a “Captain Marvel Jr. vs. Captain Nazi” article. Do you know who created Captain Nazi? OTTO BINDER: Yes, it was Ed Herron. Herron was a very good writer, and I think he created Captain America, too. At the time he worked for Fawcett, he couldn’t admit to it, because he wasn’t supposed to work for any other company.

JACK BINDER: It didn’t bother me a bit! I knew the end was near and I’d made arrangements to go into another line of business. OTTO BINDER: Jack’s case was different, because he was branching out into other lines of business; but in my case, my whole living was practically Fawcett Comics. I had quit DC because of the Fawcett/National lawsuit, so when National finally won the suit, it came as a big blow to me and the other artists and writers concerned. The thing that made it even worse was that Beck and I had a syndicated Captain Marvel strip all worked out. He even did some artwork on it. I think we had about six or eight weeks of it done. BC: What about your brief venture with Milson Publications, Otto, and the character Fatman the Human Flying Saucer?

MG: Otto, which did you find it easier to write... a super-hero story, or science-fiction story, or a detective story? OTTO BINDER: I think, probably, the science-fiction stories. I liked doing things for the EC comics. BC: [to Jack] What did an artist have to be able to do for your shop? JACK BINDER: The most important thing for an artist in the comic book field to know is how to utilize the full page, with the number of breakdowns on that page, to consistently have a continuity and a flow of story. Knowing how to interpret a script is another important thing. There was a panel once that really had the boys puzzled. The script said, “Show the hero and the girl standing on the shore at the beach, with the waves thundering in, and in the background show 10,000 natives coming at them throwing spears.” They finally decided to see me about this problem of how to draw all that. I said, “Well, getting to this point is very simple. Just show a closeup of the hero, with his arm around the girl, pointing at the reader, saying, “Look at those 10,000 natives coming at us! This is the end!” MG: As an artist yourself, Jack, how many pages did you turn out a day? JACK BINDER: Two complete saleable pages a day. “Look, see, think, do” is my motto. My advice to anyone learning art is to learn

Otto believed writer and sometime editor Ed Herron created Captain Nazi— though another Fawcett writer, William Woolfolk, has claimed that feat. Either way, he was one of the greatest super-villains of the World War II era, as seen here in Whiz Comics #25 (Dec. 1941). But—Ed Herron as the creator of Captain America? [©2002 DC Comics.]

Journey to the Rock of Eternity

OTTO BINDER: That was a big fiasco, of course! Fatman—well, I don’t know. There, Beck and I couldn’t see eye to eye. His idea of the character and mine were just so different that I don’t even know how to describe it. I had to rewrite stories, and Wendell Crowley, who also worked at Milson, had to rewrite stories. We just never could get together on the character. [NOTES ON FATMAN: Fatman came into being in 1967. He was a Jack Binder in ’73—and his splash hero with three identities: (1) Van for a “Mary Marvel” story in Crawford, a wealthy hobbyist; (2) Marvel Family #21 (March 1948). Fatman, the green-and-yellow-clad [©2002 DC Comics.] heavyweight hero; and (3) Saucerman, the human machine. Due to an amazing bio-genetic serum given to him by a little green alien from outer space, Fatman possessed the power to change at will into a flying saucer. Fatman was no slouch in human form, either. He was tremendously strong and was a master of karate!] BC: Another Milson book, which never came out, was to be called Captain Shazam. Can you tell us a bit about it? OTTO BINDER: Captain Shazam? Well, sorry to disappoint you, but I really don’t remember much about him. He was completely different from Captain Marvel, of course; had to be, for obvious legal reasons. If I recall, I did some story outlines, which I no longer have, but that’s as far as it got. BC: What are your reactions to the newly-returned Captain Marvel [in DC’s Shazam! comic of the 1970s]? JACK BINDER: I’ll give you my reactions on what has already died once. We tried a revival with Little Nemo. I spent thousands of dollars on Bob McCay, Windsor McCay’s son, who had his father’s technique down to perfection, but lacked the imagination and vitality to get it across. I talked Street & Smith into publishing it, did a few layouts for Bob McCay, and Otto even did a few scripts for it; but when Windsor McCay died, Little Nemo died with him! It’s almost impossible to revive something and get the same life and dynamism into it that the original had. Now, Beck, on the revived Captain Marvel, retained his technique, but because he’s so far away from the original inspiration, the book just isn’t the same. In the old days, this was part of our life. With these characters, we put heart and soul into them. I put my staff through a regular training course on how to interpret a script. You had to For Comic Crusader #15, Bill Black approximated C.C. Beck’s art on Fatman the Human Flying Saucer, one of the most strangely conceived super-heroes of all time. [©2002 the respective copyright holder.]

believe you are this character. Although I had forty people working on one script, in every possible area, the whole thing had to tie together just as it does in the movies. OTTO BINDER: We had regular “bull sessions” in those days. We could talk for hours about comics. In fact, we met for weekends for six years, just talking shop. Even though the meetings were social, the conversations always centered around work. We lived it! JACK BINDER: Our instance in the so-called “Golden Age” of comics was a period of time similar to the early movies. No one knew what they were doing. We had to just take the bull by the horns and make this thing go! There were no guidelines set for us to go by. Fortunately, because of the thrill of just doing it and being involved in it, the comics worked. BC: Otto, do you think today’s Captain Marvel stands a chance of selling, or do you think he’s basically a “1940s” character? OTTO BINDER: I wonder. I just don’t know. It’s just as light and whimsical. It just doesn’t seem to be the real Captain Marvel. The artwork, yes, because it’s Beck, but the stories just don’t have the flavor I felt in the old days. As Steranko said in his History of the Comics... “The Magic Is Gone!” MG: Otto, when you sat down to write the Marvel Family stories, did you first plan out how much action would be given to each member? Did Captain Marvel get the best treatment? OTTO BINDER: The stories were tailored to give them all equal exposure. Sometimes one of the Marvels would get a bit more of the action, but the formula was to send each one of them out on a separate mission and bring them together for a big ending. BC: You are perhaps best remembered, Jack, for “Mary Marvel.” Will you tell us a bit about your work on her?

“Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel”

“Not Your Fathers Captain Marvel!” Another View by Bob Greenberger [EDITOR’S INTRO: In Alter Ego V3#9 I indulged myself by writing a lengthy examination of a handful of my “dream projects” that did not come to fruition in the late 1980s and 1990s. One of these was a monthly Shazam! series which was slated to follow the successful four-issue Shazam! The New Beginning series which Dann and I co-wrote, and which was drawn by Tom Mandrake, on the heels of the mid-’80s Legends mini-series. I detailed the process by which Mark Beachum, Frank Travellin, Mike Gustovich, and Tod Smith, in turn, were chosen by DC Comics as the artistsdesignate. [The final step in this debilitating process occurred when editor Mike Gold relinquished the project, against my wishes, to another editor whom I did not name, who insisted that I plot a new, stand-alone first issue (instead of the already-plotted #12 which had been penciled, in whole or in part, by at least three of the above artists). Eventually the whole thing fell apart, and, my six-year contractual priority on a Shazam! series having expired, I moved on to other projects, mostly at Marvel, while others—and eventually Jerry Ordway, who was not connected with the foregoing in any way, shape, or form—became the heirs to Shazam!

As you might imagine, I read your piece “Not Your Father’s Captain Marvel!” with great interest. Having both watched from the sidelines at the beginning and being actively involved at the end, I had my own notions of what happened and why. Captain Marvel was always a problem character for the DC Universe, even in the slightly more innocent 1980s. His world was of a simpler time, and it never seemed to fit as things got grimmer and grittier. His use in Legends showed that with the right creators it might work, and it certainly succeeded with the Shazam! The New Beginning mini-series. After that, the character, and you, suffered from a clear lack of editorial direction. While you were working out West, Dick Giordano tried to match you with the right artist. Mark Beachum, promising as he was, was among the first of a generation that seemed to lack the direction to draw on a regular basis. With the exception of his work in Penthouse Comix, Mark has never been a regular artist on much of anything. The work you reprinted shows his style owing more to Neal Adams than C.C. Beck, which would have made for an odd-looking Captain Marvel indeed. Frank Travellin was someone Dick was trying to groom for years and, again, his work never amounted to much and he soon disappeared from comics altogether. I remember his storytelling to be pedestrian, but the designs you showed reminded me why Dick stuck with him.

[Because I had not named most of the parties involved, Bob Greenberger—the editor to whom In the late 1980s three artists penciled the same scene for the first issue Mike handed over my Shazam! of Roy & Dann Thomas’ projected monthly Shazam! series: (above) series—is not mentioned in A/E Mark Beachum... (next page, top right) Frank Travellin... and (next page, V3#9. However, upon reading Mike Gustovich, who did some bottom left) Tod Smith. Bob Greenberger seems to feel that Mike Gustovich “Not Your Father’s Captain nice work for you back then, was a may have done some penciling for the series, as well! [©2002 DC Comics.] Marvel!” therein, Bob elected to better, more disciplined choice, submit his own thoughts on the and I have no idea why this subject, and I was more than willing to print them. Here’s what Bob, version didn’t take off. It was probably the strongest of the bunch. who since then has also spent some months as an executive at Marvel, By this time, when you stopped being the writer/editor, the character had to say via e-mail on in August 2001. —Roy.] fell under Mike Gold’s purview. Mike certainly matched your enthusiasm for the character, but he was so busy starting things up that he

Another View

didn’t give it the attention the project deserved. To Mike’s credit, he did get the short story approved for his Action Comics Weekly, keeping people hopeful of something. Rick Stasi was a crony choice and not really the right style for a straight super-hero. His style was harking back to the Fawcett days while the story demanded something stronger. In fact, looking through all this, it’s apparent that neither Paul Levitz, Dick, Mike, nor you had a strong enough vision to figure out the right direction and right creative personnel to put on this, because Captain Marvel was such an odd fit to the DC Universe. By this time, somehow Tod Smith got the gig (some things I never knew), and Mike showed me your outline for feedback. He was clearly at a loss. I wrote up a one-page memo, summarizing my thoughts and concerns about the serial structure, and the next thing I knew, Mike gave me the book. While I liked the character and respected your take on things, it was never my intention to get involved. Still, being the good soldier that I was, I used that memo as the roadmap for what needed to be done. One of those concerns was that Captain Marvel was too isolated from the rest of the DC Universe. If he were to be an active participant, we had to change that. What better way than to have our good Captain get into a brawl with someone clearly identified with that Universe? Mammoth [from The New Teen Titans] made the most sense. Then there was the fact that you had sub-plots and storylines running for large numbers of issues. To me, at the time, the idea to launch a new monthly was to bring the reader along. Rather than start at 60 m.p.h., I wanted to start with one- and two-part stories so that by the time we got to the end of the first year, we had a big three-parter, making an event out of things. You and I disagreed on this point, but you were a pro about it and work got underway.

Tod did some nice art, but it wasn’t working—through no fault of yours or Tod’s. It may have been the wrong people at the wrong time— you certainly had no enthusiasm for what I was asking for, and I was trying to make this commercial with no special “feel” for the material. Management wisely stopped this from proceeding and then the character disappeared. By this time I can only imagine how tired and frustrated you felt, followed then by the pain of losing Captain Marvel to Jerry Ordway. Still, I wanted your readers to understand some of the thinking that went on at the offices while you were working at home, full of hope. I’ll finish by pointing out that, although Jerry found a way to make the gentle action and humor of Captain Marvel work, it was never a commercial success. No matter how talented the people involved, there seems to be no way to make this character viable in today’s market. To which I say, thank goodness for the Archives.

Roy’s Response Amen to that... and I was glad to receive Bob’s comments. It’s never my intention as editor of Alter Ego to claim that anyone, myself included, has the “last word” on any given subject. All the same, I must respectfully disagree with what I feel is the cornerstone of Bob’s argument: namely that, after the four-issue Shazam! The New Beginning series Dann and I wrote with Tom Mandrake, “the character, and you [meaning me], suffered from a clear lack of editorial direction.” Actually, if by that last phrase Bob means a lack of direction from DC editors, I totally concur. If, however, since until shortly before I had been functioning as editor of my own material at DC, he means

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

EC Confidential by Michael T. Gilbert Some cartoonists are born geniuses—or at least that’s the way we like to imagine it. Truth to tell, it’s hard to picture guys like Harvey Kurtzman, Jack Davis, Wally Wood, and company ever being anything less than perfect. Still, even the greatest talents had to start somewhere, and the cartoonists who worked at EC were no exception.

fertile period in which he also wrote, edited, and sometimes drew grimly realistic war stories for EC’s Frontline Combat and Two-fisted Tales. Early issues of Weird Science and Weird Fantasy also featured a handful of superbly crafted Kurtzman sciencefiction stories.

From roughly 1950-56, the Entertaining Comics line produced some of the greatest comics in the field. In their day, the cartoonists whom publisher Bill Gaines and editors Al Feldstein and Harvey Kurtzman hired were a virtual “Who’s Who” of comics’ best and brightest—and the stories they crafted for Mad, Two-fisted Tales, Weird Science, Crime SuspenStories, Tales from the Crypt, and other EC titles became instant classics. So what better place to start our search?

After leaving EC, he started Trump, Humbug, and Help!—all brilliant but financially unsuccessful humor magazines. The former was published by Playboy magazine magnate Hugh Hefner in 1957, but died after a mere two-issue run. Five According to The Illustrated Harvey Kurtzman Index, Glenn years later, Kurtzman and Brays’ indispensable 1976 checklist, this very early Kurtzman fellow Mad cartoonist Will cartoon first appeared in The Overtone, the school paper of In this and future Crypts, we’ll sneak a peek at Elder finally hit paydirt when New York High School of Music and Art, and was reprinted in some rare pre-EC work by these comics legends— they began their long-running Guts #5 in 1969. [©2002 the estate of Harvey Kurtzman.] and to sweeten the deal, we’ll even showcase some “Little Annie Fanny” series in noteworthy examples of their later work. But let’s Playboy itself. But before all that, Harvey served his comic book keep it our little secret, OK? That way I have an excuse to call this apprenticeship drawing stories for a number of second-rate publishers. series... “EC Confidential”! Comics historian John Benson states that Kurtzman began his cartooning career in 1942, helping artist Louis Ferstadt ink a Classic Comics adaptation of Moby-Dick. From there, he moved on to draw straight super-hero features like “Black Venus,” “Magno and Davey,” and “Mr. Risk” for Ace and other publishers. Harvey seemed ill-suited to these humorless stories. Fortunately, his irrepressible humor couldn’t Let’s start with the mad genius behind Mad comics and Mad be contained for long! magazine, Harvey Kurtzman. Harvey created Mad in the early 1950s, a

Part I Harvey’s Heroes

A selection of HK’s straight super-hero comics fare: “Paul Revere Jr.” (Super-Mystery Comics, Vol. 3, #3), the cover of 4 Favorites #11, and “Mr. Risk” (Super-Mystery Comics, Vol. 3, #5) were all published in 1943 by Ace/Periodical House; “Black Venus” is from Contact Comics #11 (1946), from Aviation Press. These pages were reprinted in The Illustrated Harvey Kurtzman Index. [©2002 the respective copyright holders.]

EC Confidential

Harvey moved to EC, where he wrote and illustrated a series of humorous tales for editor Al Feldstein’s science-fiction titles. One of these, “Man and Superman” (Weird Science #6), was a clever 7-page look at the scientific underpinnings of the Man of Steel’s super-human abilities. It came out only a year and a half before the first issue of Mad, and in a sense was a (probably unintentional) trial balloon for his later super-hero satires. (See next page.) Oddly enough, though Harvey would later parody DC, Fawcett, and Quality super-heroes in Mad, his first and only Marvel-hero satire wouldn’t appear until 1990—when Marvel itself published Harvey Kurtzman’s Strange Adventures. Harvey wrote seven short stories for the book, including a rather disappointing Silver Surfer parody (see p. 22). Earlier, he had done a mid-’60s “Little Annie Fanny” episode in Playboy which had featured one of Annie’s comic-collector friends dressed as Captain America. (In the late ’60s Marvel published Not Brand Echh, a heavily Kurtzman-influenced humor title that made fun of their heroes; but to my knowledge the two stories mentioned above remain the only time Kurtzman himself played with the Marvel/Timely characters.) Also, for a 1963 issue of Help! he did the delightful “A Thousand Pictures Worth One Word,” as seen on page 21.

From 1946 to 1949 Kurtzman wrote and drew a series of hilarious “Hey Look!” one-pagers for Timely (later called Marvel). It was the first time he had complete artistic freedom on any of his projects, and his work showed it. Kurtzman’s strip grew funnier with each episode, and paved the way for his later Mad work. Stan Lee was his boss in those days, and must have enjoyed Harvey’s zany humor, as he eventually bought over 150 “Hey Look!” strips to use as fillers in various Timely titles. One of my favorites of the “Hey Look!” strips is the Captain Marvel-ish incident wherein a character turns into a super-hero by shouting “Hey Look!” This was drawn in the late ’40s for Timely, but Kitchen Sink’s invaluable Hey Look! collection states that it was first published in Kurtzman’s Portfolio 10 in 1966. This isn’t quite super-hero stuff, but around 1949 Kurtzman also submitted to editor Lee an amazing 12"x18" sample page that was very much a precursor of the Mad comic he would launch a couple of years later at EC. (See next page.) First printed in a 1993 Christie’s East Comic Collectibles catalog, it is described there: “Archie-like character is actually ‘speaking’ to Stan Lee and performs some very definite no-nos. Kurtzman was obviously demonstrating to Lee his range as an artist.” But that was the year of one of Timely’s periodic downsizings, and the end of even the “Hey Look!” fillers.

A later “Hey Look!” page with a super-hero theme. If you run across a copy of Kitchen Sink’s hardcover Hey Look! collection of a few years back, circle the date in your calendar. It was your lucky day! [©2002 estate of Harvey Kurtzman.]

Tom Sutton

Tom Sutton (1937-2002) by Jim Amash Tom Sutton was a fun guy to talk to. I never got far into any conversation with him without laughter coming from both of us. He was a salty, witty, amusing, insightful, bright man who told great stories. I always thought he sounded like a high-pitched, ribald Hans Conreid, with a little pixie thrown in for extra character... as if he really needed any more character. For many years, a telephone friend of mine, the late, great Pat Boyette, kept after me to give Tom Sutton a call. I did, and Tom and I became good friends for the last five years of his too-short life. The three of us had a real camaraderie with many common interests: old-time radio, old movies and character actors, UFOs, and of course comics. Tom was the only man I knew, besides Alex Toth, who remembered supporting actors like Allan Jenkins, Ed Brophy, and Sterling Holloway, as well as he knew John Wayne, Bogart, and others of that stripe. Tom would put on a tape of an old Jack Benny radio show, listening for hours as he made comic book magic on bristol board. A few months ago, Tom and I were discussing the movie True Grit. A few days later, he called me to inform me it was on AMC (American Movie Classics)—again. I turned it on, and we spent the next ten minutes doing our own versions of the dialogue over the phone. We devolved into doing an X-rated edition, and he kept me in stitches. I sure wish I’d taped that phone call. Tom loved the comic book business, but he had no illusions about it. Sometimes a little bitterness would come through in the conversation, but his observations were more wry than sullen. He loved working with Stan Lee and enjoyed the Not Brand Echh stories he inked over Jack Kirby. He certainly enjoyed working for Jim Warren. Tom didn’t place

much importance on the original art. He gave much of his own away, and sold more for super-cheap prices: “I gave my son some once and let him color in the drawings.” He was able to adjust his style to suit any genre, because he understood the importance of good draftsmanship. I remember his comments about a well-known comics artist he was inking at DC. She drew a box in the street, and in the middle of the box she wrote, “Draw car.” Tom called his editor and asked, “Why are you hiring this person if she can’t draw a car?” I don’t recall what the answer was, but Tom accepted it for what it was and kept quiet. He knew the score and was a real professional. Tom knew how to draw and he did it well. He told a good story and his layouts at times were quite inventive. He could stretch, bend, and mold panels in interesting ways, but it never detracted from following the story. Tom knew that telling the story was the important thing: the bells and whistles were only window-dressing. His inks, whether over his own pencils or others’, were solid and effective. He balanced his pages well, spotting blacks for effect. Tom had a fair number of fans, but never became a “fan favorite.” During the last phase of his comics career he was drawing “X-rated” comics, and while he would have preferred working for the big companies, he didn’t put down that work. I think what kept Tom’s spirits going was his wry outlook on fate. “My lot in life has downdescended into the gutter, but at least I have company here,” he told me. He liked the Fantagraphics people and appreciated their thinking enough of him to give him a long interview in The Comics Journal. Tom dealt with life through humor. Everything had a funny, albeit sometimes cynical side. It was his way of dealing with serious subjects. He and I were both deeply saddened by the passing of Pat Boyette. I told him, “At least we still have each other to talk to.” Tom said, “Yeah, we fill the void Pat created as best we can.”

Tom, my friend, your passing creates a void, too... though I know you’d have made fun of it in order to make it easier for me. I’ll miss you.

Fawcett-To-Go

FawcettTo-Go Jennifer T. Go BECK & SCHAFFENBERGER: SONS OF THUNDER Work has begun on the follow-up to last year’s book, Fawcett Companion—The Best of FCA. Beck & Schaffenberger: SONS OF THUNDER by P.C. Hamerlinck and Mark Voger (to be published by TwoMorrows) is a split-biography book showcasing the lives and careers of two of comics’ all-time mightiest artists, C.C. Beck and Kurt Schaffenberger! Watch this space for further news and updates. David Siegel reports that legendary Golden Age comics writer, renowned novelist, and FCA/Alter Ego contributor BILL WOOLFOLK is scheduled to appear at the 2002 San Diego Comic Convention August 1-4.

From our friends at AC COMICS comes the resurrection of that famous Fawcett title, America’s Greatest Comics! Issue #3’s allFawcett line-up features SPY SMASHER, IBIS THE INVINCIBLE, MONTE HALE, NYOKA THE JUNGLE GIRL, BULLETMAN & BULLETGIRL, EL CARIM—MASTER OF MAGIC, and something really rare: LEE GRANGER, JUNGLE KING, the scientist/explorer who leads a Pygmy tribe with the aid of Eric, his talking tiger! (Shades of Mr. Tawny!) Issue #35 of AC’s Golden Age reprint anthology comic Men of Mystery contains a very early C.C. Beck-drawn Spy Smasher story reprinted from Whiz Comics! Give AC Comics your support! View the entire AC catalog for these and other great books at <www.accomics.com> or contact them at Box 521216, Longwood, FL 32752. FCA is always looking for rare Fawcett comicsrelated art, photos, and other materials, especially rare artwork and cover recreation paintings by C.C. Beck. We welcome your contributions and comments. E-mail us at <fca2001@yahoo.com> or write to us c/o TwoMorrows or Alter Ego.

Beck & Schaffenberger: Sons of Thunder—coming soon from TwoMorrows!

COMICS ON CD-ROMS, featuring complete issues of Fawcett’s Bulletman and Spy Smasher in their full original color, are available from Graffix Multimedia, P.O. Box 46454, Las Vegas, NV 89114 <www.comicsoncdrom.com>. Highly recommended, cost-effective Golden Age comic book reading... and coming soon: Captain Midnight CD-R! JACKSON BOSTWICK, TV’s Captain Marvel, has his website up and running <www.jacksonbostwick.com>. Check it out for news on his upcoming autobiography Myth, Magic, and a Mortal, current film projects, autographed items for sale, and more! FCA extends an apology to COMIC BOOK RESOURCES’ Jonah Weiland, Scott Shaw!, and Bill Morrison. The edited review of Marvel Family #79 by Morrison inadvertently and unintentionally appeared in Alter Ego #9/FCA #68 without first securing proper consent of the parties. We’re sorry for our reckless goof, and we encourage you to visit CBR’s outstanding web site <www.comicbookresources.com>.

IN MEMORIAM: CHAD GROTHKOPF, who passed away in January 2002. Chad’s long career included creating Hoppy the Marvel Bunny, Fawcett’s Funny Animals, and many other comics. A short tribute to him was printed last issue in Alter Ego, and more about him is planned in the future. WILLIAM WITNEY, who passed away in March 2002. Mr. Witney was an influential director of dozens of westerns and classic movie serials, including Republic’s The Adventures of Captain Marvel (1941).

Jeff Brenna created these superbly-crafted custom Marvel Family action figures. For more information, go to <http://jeffwildstar.freeservers.com>.

Marc Swayze

33 Back in 1940 I took a long low-budget trip to show the big city syndicates my first try at a comic strip. One of my stops was to be the NEA Service. I learned from the security officer at the Cleveland bus station that the syndicate was within walking distance, and, from a uniformed patrolman on the street, more specific directions. I soon learned that the part of the NEA building to which I had been directed was the part that those officers knew... the syndicate’s loading dock!

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic Mary Marvel origin story; but he was primarily hired to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After World War II, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his long-time friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s romance comics, and eventually ended his comics career with Charlton Publications. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. For the last few issues, Marc has focused on his several attempts to sell a syndicated comic strip. This time he relates how his dream to get his own strip syndicated was finally realized... only to be confronted with a crossroads decision. Read on to see what he decided, then join us again next issue when Marc returns to his reminiscences about the halcyon days he spent with Fawcett Publications. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

Without looking for the front of the building I caught the attention of one of the workers long enough to explain to him why I was there... and after his consultation with a couple of others, he waved to me to wait, and disappeared. When he returned he was with another individual who looked as much out of place in the warehouse area as I did. It was Earnest L. Lynn... and there at the busy loading dock of NEA Service, I presented Judi the Jungle Girl. To this day I haven’t forgotten the courtesy and encouragement shown me there... nor that accorded me by Ernest Lynn during the ensuing years of my quest for a career. Now here it was, fourteen or fifteen years later... right in my hands... the long-sought syndicate contract... with details just about like I had wanted them from the beginning. The Great Pierre, my own creation, writing, art, title, and characters, was to be released to the newspapers by the Bell Syndicate, with time allowed for further preparation. After about a year of modifications to the strip, all by the way of correspondence with Andre F. L’Eveque, suddenly he was gone. A brief message from Joseph B. Agnelli announced that “Frank” had resigned from the organization.

I may have lost ground with his departure... not just the confidence he had expressed in my ability, but his understanding of the feature. The Great Pierre, in the way I saw it, was of a new breed in newspaper continuity comics, where emotion took emphasis over high action. The story of Pierre LeGrand... nee Louis LeNoir... was not an account of his deeds alone, but of his thoughts, his feelings.

Ross of Eternity

Ross Of Eternity An Interview with Shazam! Power of Hope Artist ALEX ROSS Conducted by Walt Grogan Most Photos Courtesy of Walt Grogan, Alex Ross, and Sam Abbinanti

because he really didn’t know Captain Marvel from a hole in the ground. He didn’t know the character the way that I knew him from the Shazam! TV show in the ’70s and so many of his adventures.

[Since bursting on the comic book scene with Marvels in 1994 and continuing on with Kingdom Come in 1996, Alex Ross has become a fan favorite for his ultra-realistic paintings of both DC and Marvel super-heroes. For the last four years, Ross has focused his energy on DC’s icons: Superman, Batman, Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman. Alex was kind enough to participate in a phone interview on March 18, 2000, to talk about Captain Marvel, as well as reveal a bit about his upcoming project for DC Comics —PCH.]

FCA: Was working with him different from working with some of the other models you used for the other DC hero treasury-size series?

FCA: What was it like to work with Sam [Abbinanti, Ross’ model for Captain Marvel]?

FCA: What was your first exposure to Captain Marvel?

ROSS: Sam was willing to put himself through anything, ultimately. He took it as seriously as I did, when it came down to doing the actual work. Although all the comic people that knew him teased him relentlessly about it, as if it were something almost to be ashamed of. Since Kingdom Come, he sustained for years a number of different barbs from different people we know who would joke and make fun of the whole Captain Marvel connection. And, with Sam’s personality being what it is, it only invited more and more of that because he’s such a great ball-buster himself. But when it came to putting on the costume—because he went through like at least three different costumes during the course of what we did between Kingdom Come and Shazam! Power of Hope—he took it as seriously as he needed to. There was never a begrudging sense to it. He may not have actually cared anything initially about the material,

ROSS: I wouldn’t say that much different. Everybody is pretty amenable to the needs of the photo shoot. In reality, these people are a lot more forgiving than I am. I hate having to do photo shoots. It’s not a pleasant thing. And they pretty much made themselves available at my beck and call when I usually waited until the last possible second before I let them know when I needed to see them. They made time for me.

ROSS: Well, it’s hard for me to be sure because I know that my first Captain Marvel comic book was, of course, the Shazam! comics of the ’70s. It was the issue with a great cover by Ernie Chua where, I believe, Captain Marvel’s leg was caught in a huge mousetrap and three different mouse-creatures wearing capes or something are approaching him [Shazam! #21]. A wonderful piece of art. I can’t remember whether or not I had that comic before or after the TV show was already on the air. I would err on the side of thinking that my first exposure would clearly have to be the television icon, but very quickly I was seeing the comics. I mean, I first started seeing comic books when I was about three or four years old. And then around that 1975 or 1976 period would be when I started getting them more regularly and being exposed to more and more things.

Alex Ross

ROSS: Well, I guess it covers a lot of different lines. What I mean is, I try to describe it in ways that just don’t only relate purely to nostalgia. But, first, and to my young artistic mind, I loved the composition of the costume. I thought it was an excellent design. In fact, I liked it much more than Superman’s because blue and red are not necessarily complementary colors. They are almost opposites on the color spectrum— whereas red and yellow or red and gold go together so much better. The symbol was something much more graphic as opposed to a letter form. It was something that was understandable in any language—the lightning bolt. He has the cool gauntlets and the buccaneer-style boots that I always liked. I was always fascinated with the graphic design of his cape; that it wasn’t a normal cape in the way that we understand superhero costumes. It was almost like an ornamental piece. Much like something for ceremonial use and slung over one shoulder and not being long enough to serve much of a purpose. Again, graphically, I found that really fascinating. Jackson Bostwick flying high as Captain Marvel in the 1970s Shazam! CBS-TV series. [Photo courtesy of P.C. Hamerlinck.]

So my knowledge grew in that time period. So, yeah, the idea of the television actors portraying Captain Marvel and Billy Batson was probably that first exposure, but I immediately understood the difference in the comics. And as much as I loved that television show, I was asking questions like, “Well, why isn’t it like the comic? Why doesn’t the kid playing Billy Batson actually look like the kid and look like the same person as Captain Marvel, only younger?” For me, I identified that as an important facet of the character. FCA: So that leads into the appeal of Captain Marvel. What is that appeal for you?

And then, I think the face really got me. Because he had this very puckish expression—the eyes were always in a squint—the eyebrows were very angled, arched... it would have seemed that he was angry if it wasn’t for the fact that he was constantly smiling. And, of course, the very look of his hair was almost like Count Dracula. So there was something really kind of puckish or more mysterious about the look of this guy. I was really drawn to his face and the overall package graphically of everything there. And then, to get into things about the character, of course, there are so many interesting things in the world of Captain Marvel. The fact that Captain Marvel, at least by the time I was a kid, was still the chief archetypical character of someone being able to just sort of snap their fingers

Kingdom Come “Marvel Family” [and friends] tight-pencil character study sheets by Alex Ross, 1997, for DC Comics/Graphitti Designs. This chief Marvel Family piece includes the unused and unseen daughter of King Marvel/Captain Marvel Jr. and Lady Marvel/Mary Marvel in Kingdom Come. Courtesy of Keif Fromm. [Marvel Family, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, & Bulletgirl TM & ©2002 DC Comics.]

50 joke and told him that the only way I’ll sign a release is if Captain Marvel has a bigger package than Superman’s. So if you look at the poses, Superman has his hands over his crotch and Captain Marvel has his hands at his side. And, as a joke, Alex padded up the crotch on the Captain Marvel statue and he sent it to Graffiti like that as a joke to get the OK. He thought for sure they’d go, “Come on, what are you doing? You’re going to have to take a little off.” And they sent it back and they said, “It’s fine,” and they sent it into production that way. That’s why if you look at the statue, Captain Marvel’s got this big, big package. That was not meant to be like that. It was meant to be scaled down a little bit. He said they didn’t notice it, they didn’t care, so he was okay with it. If you look at the final statue, that’s why Cap looks like that.

The Power of Sam! bizarre thing happened to me at the Power of Hope gallery showing. I’m looking around the room and there were so many familiar-looking people. Where do I know that person from? And where do I know that person from? And Bob Riley [former Alex Ross webmaster who passed away last year] finally said to me, “You know all these people because they’re in the books.”

FCA: So are you having fun? SAM: Yeah, it’s a good time, it doesn’t bother me. Kingdom Come bothered me a little bit because we had friends who would relentlessly tease the sh*t out of me about it. They really beat it to death. They would not stop. FCA: Do you get a lot of people requesting to be painted into Alex’s books? Do they offer money? SAM: No, people just usually want to fly in at their own expense. We get a lot of guys who say they would be perfect. But their egos give them away at the end of the letter. They can’t just be a regular character or a regular pedestrian; they have to be the guy that saves the world. And the reality is that it’s not going to change your life. People think that, when you do something like that, it’s going to change your life. FCA: When you travel overseas for conventions, what’s the perception of comics outside of the United States? SAM: I went overseas to Paris for a show. This show’s been going on for forty years. The most promising thing I saw there that I don’t see here is that when you go to the shows, you see school buses of kids... hundreds of kids. They use these cons as field trips... taking kids to comic conventions. We don’t have that here. Here it’s mostly guys 18-35. It’s not kids. It’s cool now, but what are we going to do in ten years? Where is the new audience coming from? I’m going to a show in Tokyo and there’s like 3,000,000 people coming to this show. In San Diego, it’s a much smaller number. FCA: If you look at the way things are going, with the shrinking audience, in ten years comics will be $20 apiece rather than two-fifty. SAM: I think part of the problem is that it’s become a niche product. You have to go to a specific store to buy it. It’s become a peep show, like pornography. Instead of being able to get comics at the drug store or at a Jewel or Dominck’s [Chicago-area grocery stores], or wherever, like we could as kids, now you’ve got to go to the comics store. In Chicago I can think of only two or three good shops in the city. My God, when you go to Paris, you’re tripping over them. Comics are also huge in Italy... enormous in Germany... Japan. FCA: Regarding some of the other models that Alex uses, the most

SAM: Alex’ dad is probably the one that scares people the most at shows, because his dad is one of the most unassuming, amazingly nice guys... I mean, he’s a minister. So, obviously, he’s a sweetheart of a guy. And he goes to these conventions, unassuming, to see his son and it freaks him out when people mob him because he’s Norman McCay... there’s no mistaking him. He’s the guy from Kingdom Come. It just spooks

the sh*t out of people. FCA: How would you characterize your relationship with Alex while doing Power of Hope? SAM: We got into a lot of arguments; we got into a lot of disagreements. We didn’t always get along taking those pictures. Because he wants it just a certain way and I thought I was doing it a certain way and he didn’t think so. It’s not always great, but we’re friends so we can call each other an ***hole. He would yell and holler. There would be a few little times when I wasn’t doing something right, like some of the shots where the little girl dies and I’m supposed to look surprised. He wouldn’t like the way I looked or say, “C’mon, you’re not trying,” or “What are you doing!” or this or that. Some of the shots where I’m flying and I’m on my tiptoes were very tiring. Taking hand shots fourteen different ways: “Come on, man, I want to get out of here!” He’s so exact that everything’s down to costume adjustments, you know, like adjust that, fix that, the sash doesn’t look right. Gel your hair more. Every imaginable thing you can think of. The costume has to be perfect. The feel of what you’re doing. The lighting. We’ll light things three or four different ways and sometimes when it is developed and it doesn’t look right, we’ll have to take it all over again. This picture didn’t turn out right, that picture didn’t turn out right. It’s a lot of stuff. With Power of Hope there were times when he’d called me up on literally a whim and say, “Hey, I need a picture right now” and I’d have to go and put that damn costume on. It would take me a half hour to put that thing on! I mean it’s like a cat suit with this and that and the boots and the sash. I feel sorry for the next guy who’s got to wear it, because I didn’t wear anything underneath it, because he didn’t want any kind of lines showing or anything. So, hopefully, there’s no Captain Marvel Jr. anytime soon, because he’s not going to like it. Hopefully he got it washed. [Walt Grogan lives in the Chicago area with his wife and twin daughters, as well as his two cats. In his spare time (Ha!), he is the webmaster of the Marvel Family Web <www.marvelfamily.com> and The Jerry Ordway Web <www.jerryordway.com>.

Now—FLIP US for our Marvel Bullpen Reunion Section!

Roy Thomas’ Sub-Aqueous Comics Fanzine $

In the USA

5.95

No. 16 July 2002

Marvel Bullpen Reunion 2001

The Mighty Marvel Bullpen Reunion JOHN BUSCEMA, GENE COLAN, JOHN ROMITA, and MARIE SEVERIN Talk About “The Marvel Age of Comics” Panel Conducted & Edited by Mark Evanier All Photos Courtesy of Ralph Rawson Werner Transcribed by Brian K. Morris from a Videotape by Marc Svensson [Panel Moderator’s Intro: Okay, imagine the scene. It’s Saturday, July 21, and we’re upstairs at the 2001 Comic-Con International in San Diego. Longtime fans of Marvel Comics of the ’60s, ’70s, maybe even the ’80s are crammed into Room 8 to see and hear a panel featuring four of the keystone artists of that period: Marie Severin, Gene Colan, John Romita, and John Buscema. [And me? I’m the lucky guy that gets to interview and moderate.

artists Marvel ever had, whose main function in comics, good as the work on the pages was, was drawing insulting caricatures of the staff. [applause] Marie is in the dealer’s room during the day doing sketches and accepting commissions and I think they are woefully underpriced. If I were you I would go and throw a lot of money at her to buy a commissioned sketch before she wises up and triples the price... Marie Severin.

MARIE SEVERIN: I’m selling kisses, too. [applause, with a few [But the main thing you need to know I mention at the risk of audience members shouting “I’ve got a dollar! I’ve got ten!” etc.] sounding like Jerry Lewis on a telethon. ME: This next It’s that there was a lot gentleman drew about of love in that room. every Marvel book at We love what Marie, one time or another. I Gene, and the two don’t have to tell you Johns did... oh, maybe a list of them. I will not each and every mention, however, story, but certainly the that if you love his body of work. It meant work you might want a lot to all of us, and it to pick up The John was, by and large, darn Buscema Sketchbook good comic art. We which looks like this love their work, we [displays a copy of love them... and the book] and was especially we love the published by David camaraderie between Spurlock. David them, the almost Spurlock has put out a tangible mutual wonderful series of respect. They’re each as sketchbooks of not just big a fan of the other John, but also he’s [Photo, left to right:] Mark Evanier, Marie Severin, John Buscema, Gene Colan, John Romita. [Art, on opposite page: clockwise, from top left:]: Original commission pieces by John B., three as we are of all come out with The John R., Gene, & Marie. Gene Colan piece courtesy of Michael Hranek; Marie's watercolor courtesy four. I think that comes John Romita of Robert Knuist, via Jerry K. Boyd; re-creation of cover of Silver Surfer #16 (May 1970) courtesy across in what follows. Sketchbook—he did of Owen O'Leary; Spidey meets R2-D2 courtesy of Mike Burkey. But why a place-card for So does the devotion of The Wally Wood John Romita, Jr? [Art ©2002 the respective artists; Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, Mephisto, Captain the audience. But I Sketchbook, he did America, Spider-Man TM & ©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Artoo Detoo TM & ©2002 Lucasfilm.] had to mention it here. The Al Williamson —Mark Evanier] Sketchbook, he did The Amazing World of Carmine Infantino book. If I were you, I’d MARK EVANIER: I assume, if you’re here, you share my love for run down and buy the John Buscema one and I’d throw him money the period of Marvel Comics from the time F.F. #1 came out until to get John Romita. And now, would you please welcome Mr. John about the time they hired certain people who shall remain nameless. Buscema. [applause] [Cries of “Name them! Name them!” from audience.] Now, obviously, we’re going to talk about other people like Stan Lee and JOHN BUSCEMA: Thank you. By the way, you don’t get a kiss with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko and Don Heck. But the four people here a book. produced an immense amount of wonderful comics. Let me introduce ME: I’ll take three. Those of you who were here the other afternoon them quickly to you. First, we have the latest inductee into the Will will probably not forget the wonderful surprise party for this next Eisner Hall of Fame—and that’s an impressive thing—one of the best

Buscema, Colan, Romita, & Severin

Marvel Bullpen Reunion 2001 until you’re dead and several other people in it are, too. Tell me everything you can about Marvel history.” He said that as far as he was concerned, there were several different eras of Marvel. There was a period where the staff was Jack, Steve Ditko, Don Heck, and Dick Ayers. He said that during that Gene Colan. period Stan was frantic to try and find another Kirby or Ditko. He felt he tried out a lot of pencilers during that time, guys like Carl Burgos, Bob Powell, and others, who just didn’t quite work out for him. They were very good artists but they didn’t give him the Marvel look. So then there came the second wave. And with the second wave he finally found some artists who could draw Marvel comics the way he wanted them, and co-plot the stuff— take a suggestion and build on it. One who could was Wally Wood, until Mr. Wood and Mr. Lee started quarreling over money and how much he’d be paid for penciling and Wally went elsewhere and started the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents. When Wally left, he was about to start doing a “Sub-Mariner” strip in Tales to Astonish. They gave that to Gene. Wally was inking The Avengers and Stan gave that to Mr. Romita and other people. Wally was drawing Daredevil, and they gave that, also, to Johnny Romita. And I know you’ve told these stories before, but I want to go back to that moment when you came back to Marvel and, having not done super-heroes for them recently, worked with Stan. Gene, do you want to tell us about the day they handed you a “Sub-Mariner” story to draw?

(Above:) Gene Colan & Vinnie Colletta kick off Tales to Astonish #70 (Aug. 1965)—plus (below right) Gene's pencils for a Namor panel in Captain Marvel #4 (Aug. 1968), courtesy of David G. Hamilton. We repro'd the inked version of the latter in A/E V3#6, in conjunction with our Gene Colan interview. If you missed it, you missed some great, rare Colan art! Besides, we just love selling back issues! [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

gentleman. You have certain artists—we have four examples here— you don’t know these people when you start reading the comics, but somehow, even though the stories aren’t always the most wonderful, there’s something about the warmth that always connects. You know, if you buy a comic that they drew, you’re not going to waste your time, because for twenty pages or so you will be transported into a wonderful world of very human people and very interesting villains and sexy women. People are gushing about the various ways [certain artists] drew sexy women, and I understand that... Will you welcome Mr. Gene Colan? [applause] And this gentleman—in my opinion, the worst thing this gentleman ever did was become art director at Marvel and not draw as many pages as he could have, because I always loved the way he drew Daredevil, the way he drew Spider-Man, the way he drew Captain America, the way he drew those wonderful love comics Marvel did. There’s really no talent I’d rather have than be able to draw like Mr. John Romita. [applause] I want to go back here, time-wise, to 1976. I went to a gentleman named Sol Brodsky, whom you may know was instrumental in Marvel’s history for years, and said, “I want you to give me an interview. Off the record. I won’t print this

GENE COLAN: Up to that point, I was doing crime stories, romance stories [for DC]—anytime they needed stories with a different character. I wanted to get on something that was permanent, where I could live with a character and deal with it all the time. I don’t really fully remember that was the first one, but if you say so, that’s okay with me. ME: How many people remember that Gene started off on “SubMariner”? [applause] COLAN: And then I didn’t like the character—impossible to draw, that flat head. I couldn’t make him look good, really. And I kept trying to round it off, but I knew that if I didn’t have it, it wouldn’t be SubMariner, so I stayed with it for a while.

Buscema, Colan, Romita, & Severin

white-out on it, all over the head. [to Marie] Did you do that? SEVERIN: No. ME: It was probably Sol Brodsky, then—redid the whole hairline. [to Colan] This is, of course, drawn by “Marvel’s newest Prince of Pageantry”—Adam Austin! Tell us about Adam Austin. Why were you Adam Austin? COLAN: I was working for DC at the time as well, and I didn’t want them to know I was at Marvel. [laughs] ROMITA: Can you imagine him hiding that style? They had no idea who did that page! COLAN: Stan said, “We’ll give you a new name, ‘Adam Austin.’” But I want to tell you something about fingers. Even today when I’m drawing a hand, I have to count the fingers. I have to do it. ROMITA: So there’s too many fingers on there. That’s why Disney only used three. COLAN: That’s right. (Above:) Colan & Abel's splash for Tales of Suspense #73 (Jan. 1966) plus (at right) a few panels from the story. Contrary to the way Mark heard the tale, though, Stan didn't rewrite "all" of Roy Thomas' copy—only about 50% of it! E.g., the non-splash panels are pretty much the way Roy had originally written them—working on tissue overlays, after-hours, at his corrugated-top desk in the Marvel offices—only to learn he wasn't gonna get paid freelance for it, 'cause it was considered part of his "staff writer" job! Stan took back the scripting with Gene's second "Iron Man" outing; Roy prefers to think he just couldn't resist writing dialogue for that beautiful artwork! [©2002 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ME: Now, Gene, your first “Sub-Mariner” story, did it look anything like this? [Mark pulls out the original art to the splash of the “Sub-Mariner” story from Tales to Astonish #70.] COLAN: Yeah, that’s it. ME: The first page you drew—and the amazing thing is that Vince Colletta inked this page, and The Sub-Mariner’s left hand is backwards. [laughs] Show it.

SEVERIN: Well, if you move down to Florida, they only have three. [laughs] ME: Now, Stan had you do a couple of “Sub-Mariners” and then he gave you another strip to do. What was that? Tell us about the next strip he stuck you on. COLAN: After “SubMariner”? ME: Yes. He gave you an “Iron Man” to do, correct? COLAN: Yeah, I didn’t want that one.

BUSCEMA: I’m going to argue with you, buddy.

ME: Did it look like this? [Mark pulls out the splash page of Gene’s first “Iron Man” from Tales of Suspense #73] Yes, the logo is cut off there, but you can read it.

ME: You don’t think it’s backwards?

ROMITA: Who inked it?

BUSCEMA: [studies the page] It looks okay to me. [laughs; passes the page to John Romita, who studies the page, then his own arm] No, it’s backwards. Okay. [laughs, applause]

ME: Jack Abel.

COLAN: I never noticed that. [Gene turns the page to the audience] He used to have a lot of two right hands.

ME: This is Gene’s first super-hero job for Marvel. It’s got a lot of

ROMITA: Oh yeah. That was a beautiful thing.

TWO GREAT NEW BOOKS FROM HAMSTER PRESS -- READY TO MAIL!!

COMIC FANDOM READER Edited & Annotated by Bill Schelly Fandom historian Bill Schelly’s “ultimate” book presents never-before-reprinted text and art from classic 1960s fanzines Alter Ego, Comic Art, Batmania, Xero, Odd and more, written by such top writers as ROY THOMAS, RICHARD KYLE, DICK LUPOFF, TOM FAGAN, JOHN RYAN, RAYMOND MILLER and MALCOLM WILLITS!! Includes a fantastic FANZINE INDEX from 1947 to 1975, a special section reprinting the best of Schelly’s own fanzine Sense of Wonder, and the complete text of the long out-of-print Ronn Foss Retrospective. Also featured are transcripts of the best interviews Bill conducted while researching The Golden Age of Comic Fandom. Contains lots of rare art by WILL EISNER, AL WILLIAMSON, DON NEWTON, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, ROY G. KRENKEL, DAVE STEVENS and fan favorites LANDON CHESNEY, ALAN HANLEY, DAVE HERRING and BILJO WHITE. Plus a spectacular back cover reprinting STEVE DITKO’S jaw-dropping cover to the fanzine All-Stars shot from the original art—fully colored for the first time! It’s stunning!! Softcover trade paperback book 224 BIG PAGES -- $19.95 EA.

THE EYE COLLECTION By Bill Schelly, Ron Frenz, Joe Rubinstein & Co. The Eye is back in a big way in this 148-page collection gathering all his new adventures by ROY THOMAS, DICK GIORDANO, BILL BLACK and BILL SCHELLY, including the Heroes Vs. Hitler comic book complete!! Leading off the book is the all-new 26-page “Untold Origin of The Eye!” with fabulous art by FRENZ and RUBINSTEIN, followed by “Mr. Monster meets The Eye” by the fabulous MICHAEL T. GILBERT!! Also included is the new strip “Injury to The Eye!” where The Eye squares off against the crazed psychiatrist known as the Psycho-Shrink, a complete Hero History of the Ocular Operative by Schelly, plus bonus art by TERRY BEATTY, BATTON LASH, FRED FREDERICKS, GRASS GREEN and more. Also: A classic tale of the Underworld Executioner by his creator BILJO WHITE from the Golden Age of Comic Fandom. Makes a perfect introduction to The Eye, and a superb collection that his long-time fans won’t want to miss!!! Softcover trade paperback book 148 BIG PAGES -- $13.95 EA.

CHECK OR MONEY ORDER TO: HAMSTER PRESS, PO BOX 27471, SEATTLE, WA. 98125 ENCLOSE $2 EXTRA FOR PRIORITY MAIL DELIVERY – HAMSTRPRES@AOL.COM

Title Comic Fandom Archive

“Paul Gambi---Tailor To The DC Super-Villain Stars!” An Interview With PAUL GAMBACCINI Conducted by Bill Schelly Transcribed by Brian K. Morris Introduction: Even though Paul Gambaccini’s name appears on numerous pages in my 1995 book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, his role in those halcyon days was probably given short shrift therein. This may have been partly due to the fact that he dropped out of fandom halfway through the 1960s; certainly it’s partly because I simply didn’t look hard enough for him and thus hadn’t talked with him when I was working on the book. For starters, Paul was one of the most frequent names to show up in the letter columns in DC comics edited by Julius Schwartz. He also succeeded founder Jerry Bails as Executive Secretary of the Academy of Comic Book Arts and Sciences. He was a founding member of comics apa Capa-alpha, and he wrote a popular series of columns for The Rocket’s Blast-Comicollector. All this before 1965!

show religiously, I had my “road to Damascus” experience at the house of a school classmate called Jon Haskett. Jon’s sister had a pile of Mad magazines! I asked him if I could look through them and he said yes. In the middle of the stack, for some unknown reason, was a copy of Giant Superman Annual #1. I remember it was the summer of 1960 because I was just so thrilled by this comic that I had to go out and buy it... and it was still on sale. I found it at a store called the Westfair Smoke Shop. In addition to the Annual, I remember buying Flash #114 with a Captain Cold cover. Also, I think Green Lantern #1 was out at that time. I bought all the DC superhero comics except Wonder Woman. I read these comics and loved them so much that I even went back and bought the Wonder Woman!

If you’re asking what happened to Paul Gambaccini, then you probably didn’t read Rolling Stone in the 1970s, when he was a contributing editor of that magazine. Later he went into radio, moved to England, and has worked there for the BBC ever since. I was happy to be able, on January 6, to conduct a long-overdue interview with this accomplished fellow, with special emphasis (of course) on the comics and fannish activities of the early ’60s—that exciting time when fans were coming out of the woodwork to form a grassroots movement to celebrate their hobby.

The Westfair Smoke Shop BILL SCHELLY: Paul, let’s start with your earliest awareness of comic books. PAUL GAMBACCINI: I was born the second of April, 1949, in the Bronx, New York. And it was in the Bronx—before my family moved to Connecticut in 1955—that I remember seeing my first comics. My grandmother used to read me the Donald Duck stories from Walt Disney’s Comics and Stories. In the 1950s Walt Disney’s Comics and Stories and Little Lulu were ubiquitous in barbershops and doctors offices. BILL: At what point did you feel yourself becoming aware of the Silver Age super-heroes? PAUL: Although I recall watching the George Reeves Superman TV

(Above left:) Paul Gambaccini at 15, in a blow-up of a fuzzy photo that appeared in Fantasy Illustrated #3 (1964)... and the cover of Giant Superman Annual #1, the comic that started it all rolling for Paul in the summer of 1960. [Art ©2002 DC Comics.]

I was eleven. That’s when I decided I would buy every DC comic, except for the war comics. I was too young for war, I think. But I was already a great science-fiction fan. I read books by Isaac Asimov. I must have been one of the youngest subscribers to The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. I read sciencefiction novels, which is probably one of the reasons why I gravitated to Julius Schwartz immediately with Mystery in Space and Strange Adventures.

BILL: You were awfully young to be reading Asimov, weren’t you? PAUL: I read a lot as a boy. What can I say? When you’re young, you don’t think of yourself as being young. BILL: True. But precociousness at an early age is sort of a central theme in how I see your fannish involvement, because all your dealings with comics fandom took place before you were sixteen. You got into fandom at the very beginning, and yet you were much younger than most of the other active fans. PAUL: Maybe it can be explained because we never met in person. We corresponded... and I was always a good typist. I think a lot of people thought I was older than I was because I could type.

“Paul Gambi”

Editor Julius Schwartz (on left) and one of the writers Paul mentions—Gardner Fox—starred, along with some Sid Greene-drawn aliens, in “The Strange Adventure That Really Happened!” in Strange Adventures #140 (May 1962). [©2002 DC Comics.]

BILL: You knew Jerry Bails was a grown man.

because every Tuesday and Thursday, which were the new-comic days, she would set aside one copy of each new comic for me to have dibs on. PAUL: Yes, I knew he was old because it was well known that he was a I would come in after school, every Tuesday and every Thursday, and college professor. I was in awe of Jerry Bails. I’d go through them—and the ones I didn’t want, BILL: But we’re getting Paul Gambaccini’s recipe for getting his first fan-letter published, in The Flash #122 (June 1961). she’d put back on the ahead of ourselves. Can He finally won some original Infantino art for his letter to #137. [©2002 DC Comics.] racks. That way, I did you tell me more about manage to get every issue your comic book reading of the DC books and habits in the year or so then, ultimately, the before you got into Marvel books when fandom? Fantastic Four kicked in. PAUL: I was in love with BILL: How was it that these DC books, particuyou felt moved to write larly the Schwartz books. I letters to comic book had two brothers. Peter was letter columns? one year younger than I, and Phillip was three years younger. We PAUL: In The Flash Julius Schwartz had divided up the comic book buying. Our little started to give away artwork to some of brother bought Justice League of America the letter-writers. I thought, “Gee, I’m because he didn’t have much money, so he going to win some of that.” That was my wanted as many super-heroes as possible for initial incentive. I wrote a letter that was his 10¢. Phillip still has his JLA #1. Peter got printed in Flash #122. It was actually a the Batman titles—Batman, Detective, and postcard. It’s unlike any of the letters I World’s Finest—because I just thought they subsequently wrote because it’s clearly a were dross. novelty letter, designed to catch BILL: The titles edited by Jack Schiff were obviously geared toward the youngest comic book readers. PAUL: I’m afraid to say that, for all of the friends that he had at DC, I thought that his books were just the worst, and that includes Tales of the Unexpected and My Greatest Adventure. BILL: Whereas the comics edited by Julie Schwartz— PAUL: There would be aliens in Schwartz’s titles, but they would be credible science-fiction-type aliens. I loved the fact that Schwartz and Fox and Broome took the story so seriously that they would always have these footnotes about how these incredible happenings were scientifically possible. I had a paper route, so I had the money to buy all the Schwartz and Weisinger books. I never got over to the romance side. For a long time, I didn’t even know they were publishing romance books, because the Westfair Smoke Shop didn’t keep them in the same section. I am deeply indebted to the woman of this mom-and-pop shop

somebody’s attention. Well, it caught Julie’s attention enough to print it but not to get me the art.

Discovering Comic Fandom BILL: That meant your full mailing address appeared in the book... PAUL: Yes, and Jerry Bails sent me a copy of Alter-Ego #1. Until then, I had not known that comic fandom existed. It arrived on a Saturday morning. I remember that because I was extremely excited and I put it on the ledge of the playroom, we used to call it. That’s where my father used to watch TV. When my father saw it, he said, “How can you read this trash?” [laughs] Well, I’ve got to make a decision. Do I value this or do I value my father’s opinion? And I thought, “Frankly, I love this.” So I knew I was deeply in. I just devoured it. But I can imagine that anyone looking at Roy’s BLA cover [laughs] had to wonder what was going on at the time: “What is this?” But to me, it was just the essence of excitement.

Comics Fandom Archive BILL: As far as your writing ability and your interest in becoming a writer, was that there at all at that point? PAUL: Obviously, I did not know that I was going to eventually become one of the contributing editors of Rolling Stone. But I enjoyed doing these letters. I mean, I loved the comics so much that it made sense to me to want to tell the editor how it could be better, and also to say how much I loved it. BILL: The writing in them is very good. Most of them show a lot of maturity in the writing, especially for someone who is twelve or thirteen.

41 of Alter Ego came out of the blue because it was never on schedule. [laughs] Who knew when the next one was coming out? That’s why The Comic Reader was important, because it came out monthly, or thereabouts. That was one of the two ways of having some regularity in the hobby, the other being The Rocket’s Blast because Gordon Love put it out monthly, too. BILL: G.B. Love’s contribution to comic fandom was enormous. PAUL: He was such a fascinating personality. He was out of the loop of Midwestern fandom, as it were... but he was so important. Love had tremendous self-discipline, and I admire that. And he didn’t just do the monthly Rocket’s Blast. He expanded his range to do a whole series of Rocket’s Blast Specials and then he put out his strip-zine Fighting Hero Comics. He was this little powerhouse down there in Florida.

PAUL: The father of my best friend in school in Westport was Jay Emmett, who was the nephew of Jack Liebowitz. He would subsequently become famous as the guy who did the deal with Siegel and Shuster in the 1970s. But when I knew him, he had a gig as head of the Licensing Corporation of America and he was licensing Batman and James Bond and BILL: I don’t know if fans realize how some sports products. I had been up to many early, seminal articles he DC Comics in the early 1960s, but when published in his Specials, most of them “Anyone looking at Roy’s BLA cover had to wonder what was he took me up again in 1970, I finally met by Raymond Miller. going on...” Since the cover of the 1961 Alter-Ego #1 has often Mort Weisinger. I told him I was going to been reprinted (including last year in A/E V3#10), here’s Roy’s PAUL: I wrote the Rocket’s Blast Special Oxford. He said, “I always wondered splash page for that “BLA” tale, shot (and perhaps he should on All-American Comics. what a smart person like you was doing, have been) directly from the original spirit-duplicator fanzine. reading comics.” I’ve always remembered An earlier, slightly different pen-and-ink rendition appears in BILL: I didn’t know that. It’s one of the that remark because I thought, “Don’t Hamster Press’ trade paperback Fandom’s Finest Comics—but scarcer issues. I am aware that you knock ’em.” [laughs] I wanted to say, “I this first printed version has never been reprinted before. And wrote a bunch of things for G.B. For like your comics better than you do.” He now everyone can see why! [©2002 Roy Thomas.] one thing, you did a review of obviously thought that comics were for Seduction of the Innocent that kids and that the Superman books he had done were done for kids. I appeared in the Rocket’s Blast/Comic Collector Annual. wanted to cite my favorite stories, like “Superman’s Return to Krypton” in #141, or Superboy #68 with the first Bizarro story, which, to me, is PAUL: I did a lot of writing for him. I took over the “Rocketeer still a thing of beauty. Gossip” column in RB-CC when Rick Weingroff left, and there were other things here and there. Julie [Schwartz] was the guy who obviously took the books the most seriously. So I, as much as Jerry or Roy, was excited about the revival BILL: You were not, apparently, seized with the urge to publish your sequence that Julie presided over in Showcase and The Brave and the own fanzine, like so many others. Why? Bold. I hadn’t grown up with the Golden Age heroes, so it wasn’t out of PAUL: Probably two reasons: one, I was pretty young, and the other nostalgia or memories of the Justice Society of America. But I was being that my lowest aptitude is mechanical. Everyone who published a excited by the idea of a team of super-characters with different personalfanzine had to do it manually, and this was something that I didn’t want ities and abilities. I wanted Hawkman to get his own book. I wanted to go near. As a matter of fact, another example of the greatness of Jerry The Spectre to come back. What nobody who did not go through it Bails, to me, is that he was kind enough to accept ditto masters from me could ever understand is how exciting it was for readers of Julie’s books for CAPA-Alpha, and he would run off my contributions. in ’60 and ’61 and ’62. BILL: Of course, Julie was involved in helping Jerry Bails conceptualize Alter-Ego. PAUL: Uh-huh. And if you look at the early issues of The Comic Reader, which were more important than people nowadays think for a reason I’ll mention in a minute, the news flashes come faithfully from Julie. You don’t read about “Coming next month in Batman.” Julie really gave fandom the big push, probably because of memories of his own days as a science-fiction fan and fanzine publisher. Weisinger, on the other hand, had been a fan but he didn’t encourage comic fandom— so even more credit to Julie. The reason I said The Comic Reader was so important was because just as Alter-Ego #1 came out of the blue to me, every subsequent issue

BILL: ...which allowed you to be one of the founding members of that venerable comics apa [amateur press alliance]. You obviously have a high opinion of Jerry Bails.

Jerry Bails PAUL: Yeah. Jerry, to me, was this godlike figure. I mean, Roy was human, and he may or may not recall that I’ve met him a couple of times when he was at Marvel. We’d go into New York because it was only an hour on the train. But Jerry, whom I still have never met, was this godlike figure because he started everything. I mean, God bless the Thompsons for their scholarly approach to the subject, which set a real standard for taking the books seriously. But Jerry started so many of the projects. I mean, wham, Alter-Ego; wham, The Comicollector; wham,

Alter Ego #16