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No.106 Dec. 2011

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In the USA

DICK GIORDANO

AT CHARLTON & DC 1952 TO 1970!

EXTRA!

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TONY TALLARICO & ROY ALD

Edited by ROY THOMAS The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!

2011 EISNER AWARD Nominee Best Comics-Related Journalism

Other issues available, & an ULTIMATE BUNDLE with all issues at HALF-PRICE!

ALTER EGO #96

Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Plus an interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MIKE MACHLAN! (84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #101

ALTER EGO #97

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ALTER EGO #93

ALTER EGO #94

ALTER EGO #95

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!

“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963- 1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!

Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, JOHN and MARIE SEVERIN, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #99

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL (AE #100)

ALTER EGO #98

The non-EC Horror Comics of the 1950s! From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!

Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, AL PLASTINO, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA (FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA), and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!

GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, TEEN TITANS, HERO FOR HIRE, and more! PLUS: JIM AMASH’s interview with Golden Age Fiction House artist BILL BOSSERT, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more!

A/E celebrates 100 issues, and 50 years, of ALTER EGO magazine in a double-size BOOK! ROY THOMAS interviewed by JIM AMASH about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY, INC., ARAK, other DC work, and more! Art by PÉREZ, McFARLANE, BUCKLER, ORDWAY, MACHLAN, GIL KANE, COLAN, GIORDANO, and more, plus Mr. Monster, FCA, BUCKLER/ORDWAY cover!

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(160-page trade paperback with COLOR) $19.95 US • (Digital edition) $5.95

ALTER EGO #102

ALTER EGO #103

ALTER EGO #104

ALTER EGO #105

Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by BAKER, FINE, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others! “Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, MAYER, SIEGEL, and DONENFELD! Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, Comic Fandom Archive, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by SpiderMan artist DAVE WILLIAMS!

Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!

The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!

Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-beforepublished STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!

See comic art and script BEFORE and AFTER the Comics Code changes, with art by SIMON & KIRBY, DITKO, BUSCEMA, SINNOTT, GOULD, COLE, STERANKO, KRIGSTEIN, O’NEIL, GLANZMAN, ORLANDO, WILLIAMSON, HEATH, and others! Plus: FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, JIM AMASH interviews Timely/Atlas artist CAL MASSEY, and a new cover by JOSH MEDORS!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

Vol. 3, No. 106 / December 2011 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Jon B. Cooke

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editorial Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White Mike Friedrich

NOW WITH 16 PAG ES OF COLOR!

Proofreader Rob Smentek

Cover Artists Jim Aparo, Steve Ditko, Dick Giordano, Pete Morisi

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

With Special Thanks to: Roy Ald Heidi Amash Michael Ambrose Brent Anderson Richard Arndt Bob Bailey Tim Barnes Robert Barrett Pat Bastienne Robert Beerbohm John Benson Lee Boyette Chris Boyko Alan Brennert Mike Burkey Bob & Mary Lou Burr Glen Cadigan R. Dewey Cassell Shaun Clancy John L. Coker III Mark DiFruscio Michael Dunne Jerry Edwards Don Ensign Mark Evanier Jon R. Evans Ed Fields Mike Feldman Shane Foley Gary Friedrich Janet Gilbert Stan Goldberg Arnie Grieves Walt Grogan Gary Groth George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck Neil A. Hansen Roger Hill Tony Isabella Eric Jansen

Rob Jones Lou Kanegson Jim Kealy David Anthony Kraft Kelly Langston-Smith Bob Layton Paul Levitz Steve Lipsky Jim Ludwig Mark Luebker John Lustig Mike Lynch Tim Marion Bruce Mason Jim McLauchlin Brian K. Morris Mark Muller Michael Netzer Mike Nielsen Rik Offenberger Rita Perlin Donnie Pitchford Gene Reed Joe Rubinstein John Schwirian Bill Sienkiewicz Jeff Singh Steve Skeates Joe Staton Scott Stewart Patrick Sun Desha Swayze Marc Swayze Tony Tallarico Jeff Taylor Dann Thomas Leona Thomas Steve Thompson Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Gary Watson Robert Wiener

Contents Editorial: One Of The Greats—And One Of The Good Guys 2 The Silver Age Of Charlton . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Dick Giordano, Steve Skeates, and Roy Thomas at Heroes Con, Charlotte, NC, 2009.

“This Is Really Our Last Chance To Talk About Dick”. . . . . . 23 Mark Evanier’s “Remembering Dick Giordano” panel from the 2010 San Diego Comic-Con.

“I Liked The Area Of Comics In General”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 Part I of Jim Amash’s career-spanning interview with veteran cartoonist Tony Tallarico.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! Abe Kanegson, Part 5. . . . . . . . . 51 Michael T. Gilbert’s continuing quest to solve “The Mystery of the Missing Letterer!”

Comic Fandom Archive: In Memoriam – Marshall Lanz . . . . 60 Bill Schelly pays tribute to a fandom friend—and Alter Ego Vol. 1 contributor.

Tributes to Tony DiPreta, Jon D’Agostino, Vern Henkel, & Lew Sayre Schwartz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 67 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #165 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .73 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Golden Age Fawcett pros Marc Swayze & Roy Ald. On Our Cover: Our thanks to Gary Groth and Fantagraphics for permission to reprint the photo of artist/editor Dick Giordano from an issue of Comics Journal—and to Michael Ambrose, Neil A. Hansen, Michael Dunne, and Bob Bailey (hope we didn’t we leave anybody out!) for the late-1960s art scans from Charlton and DC mags depicting work by Dick himself (Sarge Steel), Steve Ditko (Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, The Question, and The Hawk and The Dove), Pete Morisi (Thunderbolt), and Jim Aparo (Aquaman). Oh yeah, and to layout guru Jon B. Cooke for putting the whole marvelous mishmash together! [Art © 2011 DC Comics.] Above: A decade or so back, Dick Giordano contributed this Sarge Steel illustration to a “Charlton Portfolio”—and since he always said Sarge was his personal favorite among the heroes he’d drawn, it seemed the perfect lead-in for this issue of A/E. Thanks to Neil A. Hansen. [Art © 2011 DC Comics.]

This issue dedicated to the memory of:

Dick Giordano, Tony DiPreta, Jon D’Agostino, Vern Henkel, Lew Sayre Schwartz, & Marshall Lanz Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Eight-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $85 Canada, $107 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

One Of The Greats—And One Of The Good Guys

aybe I went about it all wrong.

Perhaps the thing to have done this issue would’ve been to locate a rare, maybe even never-printed interview with the late Dick Giordano and make it the centerpiece of Alter Ego #106.

would turn out to be the last of maybe two dozen panels we’d shared over the past forty-plus years, whereon we had answered questions and volunteered anecdotes for an audience appreciative of the behind-the-scenes activities of the comics industry. That Steve Skeates, a major scripter for editor Dick at two companies, joined us this time was the cherry on the sundae.

However, I was aware that many, many interviews with Dick had been published over the years, particularly after he became DC’s managing editor. Oh, if an interview had popped up that had seemed an ideal fit for this magazine, I’d have been happy to print it… but none did, and I didn’t really go looking for one. If one does show up, I hardly feel I’m forever precluded from running a Giordano interview in A/E.

Thirteen months later, in July of 2010, with Dick having passed away on March 27th of that year, five of his friends and colleagues celebrated his life and achievements on a “Remembering Dick Giordano” panel at the San Diego Comic-Con—and several more fellow professionals rose up out of the audience to add their own vocal tributes to the chorus.

Or perhaps I could’ve talked someone into writing a retrospective of Dick’s career, at least through 1970 or the mid-1970s, the somewhat elastic area of A/E’s chronological franchise.

This latter panel was an homage to a towering and beloved talent… while the earlier one was just three guys sitting around in a room swapping yarns about the comic book biz, mostly about the last half of the 1960s.

However, I felt Michael Eury, editor of A/E’s sister mag Back Issue, had already done a good job of that in his 2003 book Dick Giordano: Changing Comics, One Day at a Time. That volume may have officially gone out of print, but recently TwoMorrows publisher John Morrow announced that a few remaining copies of the book had turned up, so technically it’s even still available without one’s having to troll for it on eBay. So I settled for a couple of discussion panels at notable comics conventions on different coasts, held only a little more than a year apart—but with vastly different purposes and feels. In June of 2009, as the introduction to the next piece will expand upon, Dick and I sat together in Charlotte, North Carolina, on what sadly

Between those extremes—yet embodying them, embracing them—lies the essence of who Dick was, and why all of us cared—and still care—so much about him. No, I don’t think this issue will provide the last word you’ll read about Dick Giordano in the pages of Alter Ego. For as long as we live, and hopefully afterward, people will fondly remember Dick and what he did in and for comic books. Like I say in the above title: he was one of the greats—and he was also one of the good guys. Those two things aren’t always encompassed by the same man—but they definitely were in the case of Dick Giordano. Bestest,

COMING IN FEBRUARY

(INSTEAD OF JANUARY THIS YEAR!)

107

BATMAN ARTISTS OF THE ’40s & ’50s!

FULL-COLOR! With Golden Age Greats DICK SPRANG & JIM MOONEY!

• Unused vintage Batman cover by DICK SPRANG—never before printed in color!

• Previously-unseen DICK SPRANG & JIM MOONEY interviews on the Darknight Detective and other aspects of their stellar careers—with rare and unglimpsed art! • Part II of JIM AMASH’s interview with TONY TALLARICO, covering the Dell and Charlton years—with art by MASTROSERIO, FRACCIO, BARREAUX, HOLLINGSWORTH, NODEL, GRANDENETTI, et al. Art ©2011 DC Comics.

• FCA with MARC SWAYZE & ROY ALD—MICHAEL T. GILBERT still on the trail of the “mystery letterer”—BILL SCHELLY presents early comics fandom in color—& MORE!

Edited by ROY THOMAS • SUBSCRIBE NOW! Eight issues in the US: $60 Standard, $80 First Class (Canada: $85, Elsewhere: $107 Surface, $155 Airmail, $23.60 Digital). • DESPITE GOING TO FULL-COLOR, THE SUBSCRIPTION PRICE STAYS THE SAME!

TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics. TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • www.twomorrows.com

The Silver Age Of Charlton DICK GIORDANO, STEVE SKEATES, & ROY THOMAS At Heroes Con 2009 Recorded by Bob & Mary Lou Burr Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

A Hero Sandwich (Left to right in photo:) Erstwhile Charlton writers Steve Skeates and Roy Thomas and artist/editor Dick Giordano composed the Charlton Silver Age panel at the 2009 Heroes Con, Charlotte, North Carolina. Photo by Patrick Sun, used with his permission. Each panelist is represented by art related to his Charlton work:

A/ E

Steve Skeates scribed for Charlton during and after Giordano’s editorial tenure; he created the back-up feature “Thane of Bagarth” with artist Jim Aparo. Above him is the splash from Thane of Bagarth #25 (Dec. 1985), as reprinted from Hercules #4 (June 1968). Thanks to Jim Ludwig.

EDITOR’S PERSONAL NOTE: I saw and spoke with Dick Giordano for the final time, of many, on June 20, 2009, at the Heroes Con in Charlotte, North Carolina. Of course, on that day, despite what I knew of Dick’s declining health, I refused to consider the possibility that this might be the last of a chain of get-togethers which had begun in the latter half of 1965.

Roy Thomas’ very first professional comics sale was the script for Son of Vulcan #50 (Jan. 1966), as per panel at left, as penciled by Bill Fraccio and inked by Tony Tallarico. Skimming the dialogue when Roy showed him a just-out copy in late ’65, Marvel editor Stan Lee quipped words to the effect: “You’re lucky I hired you before I saw this!”

In Charlotte, for some years, I (often in tandem with A/E associate editor Jim Amash) moderated a Golden Age panel. By the end of the first decade of the 21st century, however, the relatively few surviving 1930s-40s creators came to fewer and fewer cons—and even the

Dick Giordano was the original artist of Sarge Steel, the metal-fisted private eye. His cover above for issue #4 (July 1965) was done not long before Dick succeeded Sarge’s official creator, Pat Masulli, as Charlton’s comics editor. [All three art spots © 2011 DC Comics—and ain’t that a kick in the head!]

Dick Giordano, Steve Skeates, & Roy Thomas At Heroes Con 2009

The Missouri Breaks (Top left:) Now it can be told—like anybody’s interested! Roy T. plotted the origin of the Plastic Man-style alien hero he called “The Shape” for his fandombuddy Richard “Grass” Green to draw (and, as it turned out, dialogue), under Dick Giordano at Charlton. It became the lead feature in Charlton Premiere, Vol. 2, #1 (Sept. 1967). Thanks to Michael Ambrose for the scan; Michael is editor/publisher of the excellent magazine Charlton Spotlight (see ad on p. 21). (Center:) Circa 1966, Roy’s fellow Missourian, Gary Friedrich, scripted numerous love stories for Charlton, with titles like “Please Don’t Play B-11” and “Truck Drivin’ Man”—but perhaps his greatest achievement in that genre was talking Dick into letting him launch a private eye series about his Modesty Blaise-style heroine Tiffany Sinn in the pages of Career Girl Romances #38 (Feb. 1967)! Artists uncertain. (Right:) Gary’s sole super-hero work at Charlton, aside from dialoguing Steve Ditko’s first few “Blue Beetle” outings, was “The Sentinels,” starring Helio, Mentalia, and The Brute. This back-up series for Thunderbolt #54-59 was the first professional comic book work of Sam Grainger, who would later ink for Marvel. Sam had been recommended to Gary and Dick by Roy, who’d collaborated with him on a comics fandom project a year or two earlier. This splash, sent by Michael Ambrose, is from #55 (Dec. ’66). [© 2011 the respective copyright holders.] The photo shows Gary (on left in pic) and Roy in April 2009, just a month before the Charlotte event, as special guests at a small comic-con in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, in the county where both of them grew up. Photo by Roy’s mother, Mrs. Leona Thomas.

Silver Age wasn’t as well represented at such gatherings as it once had been. So, knowing that Dick, Gary Friedrich, Steve Skeates, and I were all going to be at this Heroes Con (Steve being a last-minute addition, having been spurred to attend partly by the considerable interest in his lengthy interview in the then-recent Alter Ego #84), I suggested to host Shelton Drum that for 2009 we schedule a special “Charlton panel,” since all four of us had labored for that company in the ’60s, and in some cases before or after. Dick agreed to participate, as long as I’d relay questions, since his longstanding deafness had become ever more severe. But, when the time came, Gary (whose hearing, despite his younger age, was no better than Dick’s) ran into a conflict related below. As Dick, Steve, and I gathered in a meeting room upstairs from the dealer’s area (and whose microphone apparently wasn’t working), I don’t recall if Dick’s assistant and friend Pat Bastienne was present or was watching their art table during this period. My friends Bob & Mary Lou Burr, two more South Carolina transplants who live only a couple of country miles away from Dann and me as the crow (or Captain Atom) flies, thankfully recorded the event on a DVD. As the appointed starting time neared, I asked the reasonably sizable audience if anyone objected to my starting a minute or two early. “No, no, go for it,” came back the answer, so… ROY THOMAS: I hope you can hear us without the mics. I want to apologize before I get started: Gary Friedrich is supposed to be here, but he’s downstairs. He forgot to remind his wife to come and watch his table

there, and he can’t walk off from it. So I hope she remembers and he shows up in the middle of this panel. Anyway, I’ll start with the people here. I’ll start with the editors, because I’m very political myself, and you’ve got to treat the editors right. This is Dick Giordano. Of course, this is the Charlton Silver Age Panel, and of course, he was the editor of Charlton from about 1965 to 1967, ’68? DICK GIORDANO: Yeah, about 1965. I left in ’69, I think. The years all fuzz together when you get my age. [EDITOR’S NOTE: Actually, DG left Charlton in 1967, as he notes later on the panel.] THOMAS: You worked as an artist for many years at Charlton. [to audience] And then, of course, he went on to another little place called DC Comics, which he ran for a few years, so you may have seen his name there. So can we hear it for Dick, please? [audience applauds] A late addition to the panel, but an early addition to Charlton, here on my right is Steve Skeates, who was working for Marvel when I came there in ’65. He beat me into the comics field by a couple of weeks, and then he was off, working at Charlton, Tower, DC; later, he even worked for Marvel [again] and has had quite an interesting career—some of the best of it being his work with Jim Aparo on Aquaman and other books, but also with Gil Kane and others. [audience applauds] And my name is Roy Thomas, [applause] and for Charlton I wrote exactly two and two-halves stories, starting with the last issue of Son of Vulcan.

The Silver Age of Charlton

The “Fight” Club GIORDANO: Just before I came in.

On the panel, Roy tells the story of the sole Thomas/Friedrich collaboration at Charlton, for Romantic Story #87 (March 1967). Seen at top are: the splash and a few key panels from p. 4—then, in the two panels shown from p. 6, the teenage hero took up self-defense training—but on the final page, he still refused to fight at his girlfriend’s urging. They don’t write ’em like that anymore. Artist unknown. Thanks to Michael Ambrose. [© 2011 the respective copyright holders.]

THOMAS: Right, just before. I’m still back in St. Louis. I wrote the last issue of that series and of the pre-Ditko series of Blue Beetle. As soon as I wrote an issue of anything, they cancelled it. [audience goes “Awww”] And I wrote [half of] two other stories for Charlton. One of them I ghosted… about a character called “The Shape”— [to Dick] remember “The Shape”?—for my artist friend Grass Green. [Giordano nods] But he ended up dialoguing it, because I couldn’t take the credit anyway. I was working for Marvel, and Stan would’ve given me holy hell had he known I was writing anything for Charlton at that stage.

I was going to tell this when Gary got here: [to Giordano] I also started a Charlton romance story under you. When Gary was off on one of his many honeymoons [Giordano and audience chuckle]—he’s had five, and this was #2, I think—I agreed to write an eight-page romance story to help him out, and I started it. It was called “If You Love Me, Fight for

Me!” [audience titters] I wrote the first half of it, in which the guy gets beat up, and he won’t stand up for himself, so his girl leaves him. And then I had, for one of the rare times in my life—I hated doing that romance story so much that I had writer’s block and I just couldn’t finish it. So when Gary got done with his honeymoon, he came in and wrote the last few pages. In his very first panel, the guy takes karate lessons and goes out in the next couple of pages and beats the hell out of the other guy…. [audience chuckles; speaks to Giordano] I don’t know if you even knew I was associated with it, that one-half of a story. I don’t even have a copy of it.

GIORDANO: Yeah, one-half of one. I don’t have a copy of it, either. I don’t have a copy of almost everything I did at Charlton. I’m working off of— [points to skull to indicate his memory] THOMAS: Would you like to talk about Charlton for a couple of minutes?

Dick Giordano, Steve Skeates, & Roy Thomas At Heroes Con 2009

Three For The Road We’ll end this panel transcription with a “screen capture” from the Burrs’ DVD of that 2009 panel, with thanks again to Donnie Pitchford and Michael Ambrose— and with examples of the featured threesome’s Silver Age Charlton work: Steve Skeates: Before their watery reign on Aquaman at DC, he and artist Jim Aparo teamed up under editor Giordano for numerous moody tales in The Many Ghosts of Dr. Graves—including this one from #7 (July 1968). [© 2011 the respective copyright holders.] Roy Thomas: An Egyptological panel from his second-ever script sale, for Blue Beetle #54 (Feb.-March 1966). Pencils by Bill Fraccio; inks by Tony Tallarico. [© 2011 DC Comics.] Dick Giordano: Another “action hero” panel from Sarge Steel #4 (July 1965), with Sarge’s iron grip coming into play. Script by Joe Gill. [© 2011 DC Comics.]

he came back in. And after going through all of the preliminaries, he still thought we were going to use that writer, and that blew it apart. That’s the last time I really saw Steve on a business standpoint. I’ve seen him personally since then. I won’t mention the writer’s name, because you’ll probably know who it is.

when I moved over to DC. [audience chuckles]

THOMAS: Steve, we haven’t heard as much from you as we could. Is there anything you’d like to say about Charlton and your experience in working for Charlton before we dismiss? You worked there as a writer for a number of years, off and on.

And so it was just the freedom to be really creative. But as you were talking about Joe Gill sitting down without a plot—I did sort of the same thing. I’d have sort of a plot idea in my head, and then quite often the story would take a turn as I was typing. And often, I’d suddenly find myself writing an entirely different story and think it was much better and just keep going with it, and it was an exciting creative process, which I missed at the other companies. I think that’s why I look back so fondly on Charlton, because they allowed me to really be creative.

SKEATES: I liked the freedom they gave me, and we’ve been talking about the freedom that Dick gave me—that I never wrote a plot outline, I don’t think, when I was at Charlton, where I had to learn how to do that

THOMAS: [to audience] Thank you very much for your attention. [audience applauds] Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Dick.

“This Is Really Our Last Chance To Talk About Dick” The San Diego 2010 “Remembering DICK GIORDANO” Tribute Panel Conducted by Mark Evanier • Recorded, Transcribed, & Annotated by Mark DiFruscio

RANSCRIBER’S INTRODUCTION: Over the course of his 50-year career, artist and editor Dick Giordano stood as one of the great cornerstones of the comic book industry, and remained so until the time of his passing at age 77 on March 27, 2010. Widely regarded as the quintessential consummate professional, and loved by many of his colleagues for being both friend and mentor, Giordano’s legacy remains one of the more unique in the annals of comic book history. Spanning the better part of a half-century, that legacy encompassed a multitude of professional roles and creative partnerships at numerous comic book companies, including Charlton, Warren, DC, Continuity, Marvel, Valiant, and Future Comics. Indeed, a listing of Giordano’s various collaborators over the years reads like a veritable Who’s Who of legendary artists, from Adams, Andru, and Aparo to Buscema, Ditko, Infantino, and Rogers—and far too many more to be listed here.

Evanier to await the arrival of the other panelists, and chatted affably with some of the audience members as they filed into their seats. “There’s already been several of these things,” Layton said of the tribute panel to come, “so this is really our last chance to talk about Dick.” When an audience member then playfully called out, “Bring back Future Comics!” Layton responded, “Working on it, actually.” He went on to explain: “There’s that little thing called the iPad now, which is kind of like the new version of Future Comics. It gets rid of distributors and things. I’ve been approached. So I’m optimistic. That would be a fitting tribute for Dicky, as well.”

And, In This Corner… (Top:) The San Diego tribute panelists, left to right: writer Mark Evanier (moderator)—artists Joe Rubinstein & Bob Layton – Dick’s associate/assistant (and 1980s DC talent coordinator) Pat Bastienne— and writer Paul Levitz. Photo taken by and courtesy of Mark DiFruscio.

Once everyone took his/her seat, Evanier began with some opening remarks and then invited his fellow panelists to express their thoughts and appreciation for Giordano. Eventually Evanier welcomed audience members to share their reminiscences as well, prompting fellow professionals Anthony Tollin, John Lustig, Brent Anderson, and Bill Sienkiewicz to offer their heartfelt recollections of Dick Giordano.

In the months since Giordano’s death, numerous memorials have emerged in different forms, prominent among them the tribute panel “Remembering Dick (Above:) Dick Giordano himself, in a Giordano” at the 2010 San Diego Comic-Con. The “What’s To Say? If You Knew photo published in the 1980s in program notes described it thus in advance: “A panel of Comics Interview magazine. Photo Him, You Loved Him” comic luminaries and friends… pay tribute to the man courtesy of editor/publisher David who left a huge impact on the world of comics.” TV and MARK EVANIER: How many people here in this Anthony Kraft. comics writer Mark Evanier skillfully presided over the room feel they owe a large chunk of their career to proceedings, joined by writer-editor Paul Levitz, writerDick Giordano? [A number of hands go up around the artist Bob Layton, artist Joe Rubinstein, and Giordano’s longtime assistant room] That’s a lot of people. I’m gonna ask everybody to just talk about Pat Bastienne. what Dick meant to them. I was trying to think of a way to describe what Before the panel began, Layton took his place on the podium with

Dick meant to the industry… and I think I came up with something that I might want to throw out here:

“ I Liked The Area Of Comics In General ” Part I Of A Career-Spanning Interview With Veteran Comic Artist TONY TALLARICO Conducted by Jim Amash • Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

NTERVIEWER’S INTRODUCTION: The first time I called Tony Tallarico to discuss doing an interview, he chuckled and said, “I was wondering when you were going to get to me.” I said, “Tony, I had to put the youngsters at the end of the line!” He replied, “Flattery will get you an interview.” All kidding aside, I’d always planned on talking to Tony, who has had a fascinatingly diverse career in illustration. He started out as an assistant to Frank Carin, Burne Hogarth, and Al Scaduto, later working for Avon, Youthful, Dell, Warren Publications, Harvey, Feature, Gilberton, Story, Trojan, Treasure Chest, and Charlton. His Charlton work is probably what he’s best remembered for, a fair amount of it done with his friend Bill Fraccio. As packager or solo artist, Tony has drawn stories in every genre in comics, and I imagine nearly everyone reading this has some of Tony’s work in his/her collection. But Tony’s comic book career is eclipsed by his work in children’s books, of which he’s done over a thousand at last count. And Tony’s still working, which makes me wonder if he now has the record for drawing the most published books outside the comic book arena. If not, he soon will have, because Tony claims he’s just getting started! Special thanks go to our mutual friend Stan Goldberg for giving me Tony’s phone number. –Jim.

“[I Went To] The School Of Industrial Arts” JIM AMASH: Guess what, Tony? I’m going to ask when and where were you born. TONY TALLARICO: [laughs] Brooklyn, New York, September 20, 1933. JA: I was looking at your list of artistic influences: Frank Robbins, Ken Bald, Roy Doty, Stan Drake, and Milton Caniff. Obviously, you started reading newspaper strips at an early age. TALLARICO: Yes. We had several big newspapers in the New York area. The Daily News had great comics at the time. The New York Journal-American had fantastic comics and great, great Sunday comics. I still remember the Prince Valiant page that they ran in full color on Sundays. Oh, it was beautiful! I used to clip them and save them. I didn’t know why, but I did that. [mutual chuckling] Strips were the thing, and eventually the comic books became interesting, too. JA: You would have been about five years old when “Superman” came out. So you probably didn’t see him at the very beginning. TALLARICO: No, but I was a comic book collector.

Eyes On The Prize On May 20, 2005, Tony Tallarico received the Pioneer Award, given for his co-creation of the first African-American comic book hero, Lobo, a post-Civil War cowboy who appeared in two issues of his own Dell/Western title. The honor was given at a ceremony held at Temple University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Flanking photo from left:) Tallarico’s cover for Lobo #1 (Dec. 1965)—the cover of the phenomenal polico-satiric bestseller The Great Society Comic Book (1966), which was written by D.J. Arneson and illustrated by Tallarico (reportedly with a helping hand on the pencils from Bill Fraccio)—super-heroics by artists Fraccio & Tallarico (and writer Joe Gill) for Charlton’s Blue Beetle, Vol. 2, #2 (Sept. 1964). [Blue Beetle TM & © 2011 DC Comics; other material © 2011 the respective copyright holders.]

“I Liked The Area Of Comics In General”

Alma Matrix (Left:) In the 1951 high school yearbook of The School of Industrial Arts, the photos of Tony Tallarico and fellow future artist Angelo Torres were on the same page.

I read just about all of them from Archie to Marvel to DC, and a lot of others in between. I liked to see the different types of comics.

(Right:) In 2002, Tony’s old high school held a reunion. (L. to r.:) Angelo Torres, Tony Tallarico, and Al Gallo, who Tony informs us was the scenic designer on Perry Como’s TV show. Thanks to Tony for these photos.

JA: Did you draw your own characters and your own stories as a kid? TALLARICO: Oh, sure. In fact, I have a book out called How to Draw Comics, and that’s one of the things I emphasize. You should do your own. Even if you think it’s terrible, it’s terrible because nobody else has seen it, that’s all. JA: Did you go to one of the art high schools in New York City? TALLARICO: Yes, The School of Industrial Arts. Emilio Squeglio went to the same school before I had. But Dick Giordano was in my class, as was Angelo Torres—and Murray Tinkleman, who is an illustrator. He and Dick worked for Jerry Iger.

JA: Did the three of you hang around together outside of classes? TALLARICO: We were both in the Illustration class together, but it was very difficult to be friends outside of school there, because the school was in Manhattan, and hardly anybody lived in Manhattan. Angelo lived in the Bronx, and Dick lived further out in the Bronx. Murray lived in a different area of Brooklyn than I did. So after 3:30, that was it. I’d see them again the next morning, and of course we’d be great friends during the day. It wasn’t like going to a neighborhood school. JA: I knew that, but I know there were some guys who lived distances, but still got together after school sometimes.

It was a small class, about 150 kids in each grade. The classic thing about it was that we had an annex and a main building. The first two years we were in the annex; second two years we were in the main building. But the interesting thing was that they were both hospitals during the Civil War. JA: Did you get to be friends with Dick or any others? Obviously you did with Murray Tinkleman. TALLARICO: Yes, and with Angelo and Dick, too. [Dick and I] were good friends. His first real job after Iger’s was at Charlton, and he gave me a lot of work there. Dick did not start in my grade. Dick was out of school for a year because of illness, so when he came back, they put him back one year, and that’s when I met him. I knew him one year in the annex, and then two years in the main building. He was a very nice guy. I remember him coming over to my house in Brooklyn. He lived in the Bronx, so that was a long trek, about two hours. He wanted me to show him how to ink, and was very grateful for that. To me, at that same time,

Cartoonist Class Cohorts Seen at right is a signature page from Tallarico’s 1951 high school yearbook, signed by four fellow students of once andfuture importance to him. In Tony’s words (referring to entries clockwise from top of page): “(1) Frank Eliscu – sculptor/modeling instructor. He made several bronze bas-relief doors for Rockefeller Plaza—also did the ‘Heisman Trophy.’ “(2) Bob Dunn – cartoonist and writer of They’ll Do it Every Time newspaper feature. “(3) Al Scaduto – cartoonist of Little Iodine comic books and They’ll Do It Every Time daily and Sunday feature.“ (4) Mike Fafaniello – comic book/strip letterer.” [Art & text © 2011 the artists.]

it seemed silly. “Don’t thank me for that.” [Jim chuckles] I didn’t mind helping him. You would do the same thing.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

The Mystery of the Missing Letterer—Part 5

by Michael T. Gilbert

ast issue we discussed Will Eisner’s lettering genius, Abe Kanegson, with son Ben and Abe’s sister, Rita Perlin. Now we have a fascinating interview with Abe’s younger brother, Lou Kanegson, a comic book fan since the late ’30s!

MICHAEL T. GILBERT: It’s a pleasure to talk to you. I’m a long-time admirer of your brother’s work, his comic book lettering especially. And for many years, Abe has been kind of a mystery, because nobody really knew what happened to him after he left comics around ’51 or so. So let me ask you a few questions... LOU KANEGSON: What purpose is this information that’s being obtained? What are you going to do with it? MTG: I’m a cartoonist and a comic book historian. I write a column for a magazine called Alter Ego that studies the history of Golden Age comic books in the ‘40s and the ‘50s, primarily. KANEGSON: Well, I was a reader of those [comic] books…. I believe I was reading from the [start] of Superman and Batman, or close to it. Walt Disney and the [Human] Torch; I think that was Marvel Comics. Also Captain America or Sub-Mariner. All kinds of stuff, basically. Even though I was a little bit older and I was reading novels and stuff, I occasionally kept my eye on the comic book situation. Including the— what was it?—was it EC publications, that came out with the horror...? MTG: Right. Tales from the Crypt and Weird Science. KANEGSON: I read that. I was [a big fan of that stuff] for many years. Because I was kind of into that and science-fiction and all that. They sort of complemented each other.

they slimmed him down. So you have a good memory for that stuff. Was Abe a comic book fan too? KANEGSON: I don’t recall that he was. He worked in the field because, as you said, his lettering was very unusual. But he was actually an artist, in the sense that he drew, not too many big pictures like canvases and watercolors, though he had a few—but basically, he sketched with a charcoal and pencil, and he made up all kinds of dream scenes and dramatic sketches. He was into art. He could sketch you a portrait in say five, ten minutes and it would be a very intense picture of you. Not like Atlantic City ”Here Comes Alfred!” boardwalk, but he First appearance of Batman’s butler, Alfred would capture Pennyworth, from Batman #16 (April 1943). something. So he was [© 2012 DC Comics.] an artist in addition to being a letterer. MTG: Right. And I know, when he was working with Will Eisner on The Spirit, he actually helped him do some of the plotting, also. They were talking about stories and such. KANEGSON: It may have been. By the way, one of the guys that worked with him at that early stage was Jules Feiffer. MTG: Right, I know. As a matter of fact, Jules Feiffer just this year came out with an autobiography about his work career and such, and spoke highly of Abe.

MTG: How old would you have been when EC was coming out? Let’s say in 1954 or so, for Tales from the Crypt and The Vault of Horror… KANEGSON: I was in my early 20s. I read quite a number of those magazines, so there was a lot of continuity. When I was younger, Archie Comics and stuff of that nature—I read just about everything that was around in those days… [starting when I was about] seven years old, around 1939, 1940. MTG: Wow. So you were really there, right from the start. KANEGSON: Yeah, but I wasn’t a collector, because I was little. I didn’t have the hindsight—I should say the future sight of what was going to happen with comic books. I just kind of enjoyed them. MTG: Well, if everybody had foresight of everything, the comics would be worthless today, because everyone would have them. [laughs] KANEGSON: Right. I still remember when in “Batman”—I could be mistaken, but I believe that originally his valet Alfred was a fat guy. MTG: Yeah, he was, for the first year or so. Then

The Kanegson Krew! (Left to right:) Back row: Abe’s father and mother, Dave and Ester Kanegson; Abe; nephew Bert (son of brother Mack and Sylvia); Mack; and Sylvia. Front row: Rita and Lou, probably around 1940. [© 2012 Rita Perlin.]

The Mystery of the Missing Letterer—Part 5

MTG: When did he marry his wife? Do you think it was after he got out of comics? KANEGSON: Yeah, I believe it was afterwards, but I’m not positive. I remember that he was involved in a number of other things. He actually at one point, probably around ’57, ’58—one thing doesn’t exclude the other—he opened a square dance room in the Village. And that’s probably prior to getting married. I believe that’s where he met his wife. MTG: Do you know when he started doing music professionally? Would that have been in the ’50s or the ’40s? KANEGSON: I’d say professionally, it would be the later date, in the ’50s, and then the ’60s. Because he developed a reputation, both as a folk singer and a square dance caller. And he worked at one or two of the hotels in the Catskills, which were thriving in those days. He had a regular assignment during the summer over there. I can’t really recall [the name], but he did work exclusively for [one] hotel. There were a number of places where people would see him, and they’d ask him to work at their place or do a thing for them. That was something separate from his art; there was no crossover on that. MTG: Right. I have his album, and he’s a very good singer. I like his work a lot. KANEGSON: Yeah, he was very good, very natural. And on his way, he crossed paths with celebrities, people like Burl Ives and all that. They didn’t do much for him, but they gave him suggestions. And there was a famous guy, Oscar something, who was very well known in the folk and the creative music field of those days, who had a radio program. He had Abe on his program. Abe was involved in a number of things. Once, he was the artist on a quiz show that really didn’t make it, on

KANEGSON: I know they were friendly. And [Jules Feiffer] had a young assistant… I think her name was Ellen, and I went to high school with her. They lived in the neighborhood. It was strange. In those days, who thought about any of these relationships? But, I would see Jules Feiffer’s strip in The Village Voice… MTG: Right. Originally it was called Sick, Sick, Sick. How much older was Abe than you? KANEGSON: He was about nine years older than me, approximately. MTG: And do you have any idea of how Abe got into comic books, into the comic book field? KANEGSON: No. He was a very versatile individual. He sang folk songs, called square dances. How he met up with the creator of The Spirit— [there’s] a big chunk of his life that I don’t really know about. We were very friendly, but we had separate lives. In fact, part of it was just that I was too young. MTG: I think your sister might have made reference that you were roommates at a point. KANEGSON: No, we weren’t roommates, but we were very close. MTG: Was Abe living at home at that point with your parents? KANEGSON: He lived at home, and he also lived separately. I think he had a room in the village. And then of course, later in his life, he got married. And about five years later, shortly after he got married, he was stricken with leukemia. And then he had a remission as a result of medication he was taking. And he fathered two children with his wife.

“ Is This What I Want To Do For The Rest Of My Life? ” The ROY ALD Interview, Part 3 by Shaun Clancy Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

oy Ald was an editor and writer for Fawcett Publications’ comic books from 1946 to 1953, applying his talents to such titles as Wow Comics (featuring Mary Marvel, The Phantom Eagle, Commando Yank, Mr. Scarlet, and his own comical creation, Ozzie and Babs), Captain Midnight, Don Winslow of the Navy, This Magazine Is Haunted, Captain Video, Life Story, Strange Suspense Stories, Worlds of Fear, Beware! Terror Tales, Negro Romance, and others, as well developing Fawcett’s early graphic novel experiment Mansion of Evil before editing various Fawcett magazines after the publisher terminated its comics line. Ald later moved on to other noteworthy publishing ventures with various companies and also authored dozens of books—predominately in the health and fitness fields.

Fawcett, Will [Lieberson] immediately offered me a job as editor. SC: When FCA interviewed Lieberson in the ’70s, he stated that “Roy Ald was one of the most important Fawcett comic editors, who handled many comics. Out of all the editors, Roy was number one when it came to fresh ideas on comic book ideas and stories.” I understand Fawcett had a policy in place where comic book editors couldn’t be paid to write scripts on the side. So, besides editing, would you also supply story plots to your writers?

Last issue, the 90-year-old Mr. Ald had relayed his reminisces about creating the groundbreaking Negro Romance comic book and working with one of the book’s artists, Alvin Hollingsworth, as well as briefly commenting on the National vs. Fawcett lawsuit, artist C.C. Beck, and Fawcett’s editorial procedures. In this installment, interviewer Shaun Clancy guides Ald to talk about how he went about writing comic book scripts, meeting a popular pulp cover artist, and more memories of the many people he worked with at Fawcett Publications. —PCH. SHAUN CLANCY: What was your education and background for writing? ROY ALD: When I got out of the Army in 1944 I started taking all kinds of courses at various universities, but never pursued a degree. I would take the most esoteric courses they offered … Latin … Greek … Anemology … stuff like that. While never formally taught in it, I was born to write. I have written everything that you can think of, from books and magazines to greeting cards and fortune cookies. [both laugh] When I was first looking around the city trying to find where I could peddle some stories, I stopped by Fawcett because I had once noticed my kids reading their comics, and in the middle of them were two-page text stories. After my first submission to

Post-War Writer From 1946-48 Roy Ald (see photo above) was the editor of Fawcett’s Wow Comics and, as he did with several other comic books he edited, he also frequently wrote stories for the title, as well… including the post-WWII adventures of Commando Yank, as seen in this splash page drawn by Carl Pfeufer for Wow #58 (Sept. 1947). Ald praises Pfeufer’s artistic abilities in this issue’s installment of his interview. [Commando Yank TM & © 2011 the respective copyright holders.]

ALD: No. I had written some of the stories under my sister’s name, Shirley Lee. I’m sure Will [Lieberson] knew what I was doing, because I believe he was doing the same thing with writing those two-page text fillers! I’d write a synopsis, get approval from Will to have it written, then I’d go home and write it, and then have my sister mail in the script to Fawcett. She would get paid by them and then give me the money. I did this with several comic books each month right up until Fawcett quit publishing them. It was better income than my actual job! [both laugh] SC: But did you still assist other writers? ALD: Yes, of course. As an editor, I

The Roy Ald Interview: “Is This What I Want to Do for the Rest of My Life?”—Part 3

Modest Pulp Fiction

was always helping my writers, and they never had a problem with anything ever being rejected or having to be re-written. SC: Were you aware of any of your writers also doing stories for other publishers? ALD: No … and I wasn’t interested in working with any of them who were doing that. SC: Were the circulation numbers discussed with the editors? ALD: No, that information went straight upstairs to the Fawcetts, and they kept it to themselves. SC: On Wow Comics, you worked on stories featuring Commando Yank, and one of the artists who drew the character was Carl Pfeufer. Do you remember him? ALD: Yes, he was a great artist and a superb watercolorist… a fine artist who was just trying to make a few dollars from comics. Here’s an interesting story: I was also put in charge of hiring artists, and there was an agent who used to come by the Fawcett offices all the time trying to sell works from different artists who were available to do comics. He would bring with him all sorts of samples, and one day he pulled out an extraordinary painting that just knocked me over, so I asked him for the name of the artist who did it. He said, “I’m not at liberty to tell you.” I came back with: “I always look through your portfolio when you bring it in, so until I get to meet this artist, I’m just going to stop looking at all these others!” A few days later I get a phone call from a man identifying himself as Modest Stein. SC: The fine artist who painted many of the pulp covers!

In his later years, renowned pulp magazine cover artist (and former anarchist) Modest Stein may not have received any assignments from Fawcett Publications, but he did leave editor Roy Ald awestruck when he met the illustrator in the early 1950s. The above snapshot of Stein (seated at table) and his live model collaborators—from a ’40s issue of Parade magazine—was taken in the artist’s Greenwich Village studio while he created a cover for Street & Smith’s Love Story magazine. Stein painted numerous covers during his long association with the publisher, including the unsettling scene at left for the February 1945 issue of Doc Savage. Ald himself also wrote some pulp stories for Street & Smith. [Doc Savage TM & © 2011 The Condé Nast Publications, Inc..]

ALD: I remember the day I met him. He was an elderly man, small in stature but elegant-appearing. He was in his 80s and suffered from poor eyesight, but considered neither thing an issue and was still going around New York looking for work. He was respectful, down-to-earth, and I was in awe of him. He used to call me up just to chat, and one time he called and told me, “I fell asleep last night and I had no clothes on!” [laughs] I visited him once at his studio and witnessed him working. He would stare at a blank wall and begin painting figures and things that came directly from his mind. Of course, he never did any comics for us, as he wasn’t a comic book artist. SC: Of the four Fawcett brothers—Roger, Roscoe, Buzz, and Gordon—which ones did you have the most communication with? ALD: Roger and Roscoe. They were the two principal Fawcetts that were involved on the comic book side of things; I never saw any of the others. They were the ones I used to send up memos to with my ideas … and they never used any of them! [laughs] I remember talking to Roger after I had left Fawcett, and he mentioned that my memos were the things that kept their meetings running so long! [both laugh] SC: Do you recall writer Jon Messman? ALD: He was a nice, pleasant fellow whose parents forced him to play the violin while growing up. He would come to the Fawcett Christmas parties