Senator
Lamar Alexander Interview Transcript
Date: Uncertain
Time: 12:48
Senator Lamar Alexander (LA): Just barely missed you when you were here last month.
Bill Carey (BC): I was just down the hall from you, but...
LA: Where was that?
BC: I have an office over at Belmont, which is where I'm sitting right now.
LA: Oh, I see. I was there.
BC: That's exactly right…in fact….
LA: I was there myself one time.
BC: I was wearing jeans and a shirt, and they said, “Oh, he's coming today. Why don't you come?” And I said, “Well, look at me.” (laughter)
LA: Nice university.
BC: It is. I have uh…
LA: The first time I met him (Jack Massey) was when I moved back to Tennessee in 1970 to be Winfield Dunn's campaign manager.
BC: Oh yeah, he was giving money to Winfield.
LA: And, and, he supported, he supported him. Mr. Massey supported Winfield, although I wasn't really involved in that, in that relationship, but I, I do remember on election night, when uh we were all in the top floor of the Sheridan or the Holiday Inn or wherever it was and it was real pandemonium because there hadn't been a Republican Governor since 1920.
BC: Yeah, since the Taylor, yeah
LA: Yeah and since Alf Taylor right, was and he was a elected in a Harding Sweep, so that, so that was, uh, they got rid of him in two years. So and it was all pandemonium. And Jack…
BC: Uh, huh
LA: They were up there on the seventh floor trying to get in and somebody wouldn't let them in. And I said, “Oh, he's a he's a friend of Winfield's, let him
go in and say hello.” So that that was I met him briefly and saw him in 19, in 1970.
BC: Uh, huh (1:50)
LA: I didn't have any, uh, I mean let me think now I haven't thought much about this see… The next time he was active in and, and, and Eileen was and supported Republican campaigns and he supported my campaign in 1978 and uh…In 1974, He supported me when I ran for governor in 1974 when I lost to Ray Blanton. Which I appreciated. And, and so I would see him from time to time. And he and Eileen and Barbara all became; we all became friends during that time. But I, but we didn't see them that much socially, but we became friends. He supported me in 78’. Um, um, I didn't see him much as governor. I mean, he was a regular contributor to Republican causes. He did come in one time during my time as governor and offered to buy the whole prison system, which struck me as a pretty good idea. I mean, it was the beginnings of CCA…
BC: Oh yeah.
LA: …and we were having a lot of problems, and basically they proposed to pay cash for the prison systems, which we could have then used, and then operate them in a better way. And, and that began a long discussion about the private management of Tennessee State prisons, but none of those contracts were signed until after I left.
BC: This brings up an interesting question. I've heard Tom Beasley's account of how that happened, and you were governor at the time. What was, I mean, there were, you know, Tom says he had this idea of, you know, let's try the private, the private sector and he went to John Neff said go talk to Lucius Birch and next thing you know Massey Birch was involved. When did the governor's office actually come out and say “we think this is a good idea?” Was this right about in the middle of this? (4:00)
LA: No well, it was after. Tom had the idea and Mr. Massey invested in Tom's idea through Massey Birch and, and at first, at first, CCA, Tom had announced they weren't going to do any business in his home state, which was Tennessee.
BC: Yeah.
LA: So there wasn't any involvement in it. Then, then later on, I think it was my second term, maybe, um, they changed their mind and they came to, there was a big meeting in my office, the governor's office, public meeting or
publicly reported. Bill Sodgrass was there. All the state officials were there. And they made a huge proposal, which was to basically to buy the state prison system and operate it privately.
BC: I remember this, yeah.
LA: And I said at the time that I thought it was an idea worth, you know, worth trying. And so we began long discussions, but they didn't conclude till after I left, after I left office. So it must have been a long about 1984.
BC: It took a long time, and in the end, CCA got to do one statewide prison.
LA: Yeah, but it came after I left. I don't know how many they got to do, but I know they got to do at least one of the state prisons, and then they did some local prisons in Tennessee.
BC: Uh, huh
LA: But the reason it took a while was because, I think Tom felt like that the political challenge was so difficult that it'd be easier for him to do business in other states rather than his home state.
BC: Yeah (5:38)
LA: The way I really got to know Mr. Massey was he, he came to see me toward the end of 1986, and as I was going out of office, and he wanted to start Education Corporation of America. He helped start Hospital Corporation of America and Corrections Corporation of America, and he had in mind Education Corporation of America. And he wanted me-- and I had to go to work when I left office in 1987, so he wanted me to do that, working with him. And he already had begun to do that with, I think, maybe Roy Nix or some others. I can't quite remember. But he'd had this in his mind for a while. Well, as it turned out, um, I said-- I told him, I said, our family's going to move to Australia for six months and live because I've been on such a fast track in politics for such a long time. And then he said, “Well, why don't you come to” -- and I said, “I'm going to write a book about it when I come back.” And he said, well, “Why don't you come be the first to the new Massey School at Belmont University and be a part of that when you come back?” And I considered all the other options I had and he and thought that that would be a good thing to do. So, I agreed in January of 1987 that after I came back from Australia that I'd spend a year at Belmont University and do two things. One was write a book about my experiences and two was to teach a, to put together and teach a, a leadership institute, and I did some work on
that. Wayne Brown, I remember, came to see me in Australia while I was there.
BC: Oh, did he?
LA: We talked about it, and I set up a lot of the visits by mail, but I did that during 1987 and 1988, and in that interim, I got named president of the University of Tennessee, so I left. But I helped, I was there for the start of the Massey Institute. I'm skipping over one thing, in the fall of '86, He dedicated the Massey Institute and I spoke at that dedication, made a speech about a school, what a great entrepreneur he was and how I knew the school would be dedicated toward, you know, practical entrepreneurial activities and not be lost in the clouds somewhere. So those were, I can remember one other thing. After, after, I came back from Australia, I started a, I helped to start a company called Corporate Child Care.
BC: Yes.
LA: And the idea was to, Marguerite Salih and I, and Brad Martin, who was chairman, who's now chairman and CEO of Sachs, and Captain Kangaroo, who just died, and Honey, my wife, the five of us, started Corporate Child Care, which was to provide worksite daycare. And, And when we looked around for initial investors in that, one of the initial investors, the second investor in it was Massey Birch in 1988, I guess, they did that. And the company didn't make a profit for a long time, finally did in 1997. Then it went public and merged with its largest competitor, Bright Horizons, and now it's the country's largest provider of worksite daycare, so it did very, very well. And I'll never forget that back toward the end of Jack's life, when his back hurt him so much and he was staying out at his house a lot, I went out to visit him, just because I knew he was toward the end of his life and he was in a lot of pain. And I was talking with him about what I was doing. I can't remember the year. It must have been 1989 or ’90 or '91 or something like that. And as I turned to leave, and this was not long before he died, he said to me, “Just one more thing.” I said, “What's that, Jack?” He said, “Do you suppose I could get a little more of that childcare stock?” So, he was an entrepreneur right up to the end. (10:10)
BC: I think that's really safe to say. You know, one of the amazing thing is no matter how much money he had also, he was always come up with new ideas, even if they were just small time ideas. But one of my favorite letters I found. (cuts out)
LA: I think it was the money. It was kind of the sport, the sport of it.
BC: Yes, the sport of it all. That's a good phrase.
LA: Yeah. And he was so practical and so entrepreneurial and so hands on. And I don't have a copy of the speech I made in 1986, I wish I did, at the dedication of his of the Massey School because I said pretty much what I thought about him then and it was said as one who had known him a while, but was not a confidant of his, just really an admirer of his as much as anything.
BC: He did a lot for you, of course you're right, but of course he did a lot for you over the years. And let me ask you, this education company, did that ever come to fruition? I don't think it did, did it?
LA: Well, not with me it didn't. And I think he tried it in two or three different ways, but I never was involved in it. I also was on, also one of the things I forgot, one of the things I did when I came back from Australia was Lucius Birch invited me to be on the board of advisors of Massey Birch. So, I did that up until I became president of the University of Tennessee. I did it about a year and a half. That was one of the most interesting things I ever did because it gave me a chance to be involved with startup companies.
BC: Oh, yeah.
LA: And at the time, Massey Birch was the largest venture capital firm in the south and they would receive about 400 proposals every year…
BC: Wow
LA: …for new ventures and probably invest in five or ten of those. And so, the purpose of the board of advisors was to help them sort through the various ideas and so I found that a fascinating experience and enjoyed it a lot more than I've enjoyed sitting on large boards of directors.
BC: Yeah, I understand
LA: That could get pretty dull sometimes, but this was a lot of fun, very interesting, always something new going on. And while Jack wasn't very active at that time, Lucius was, and it was Massey Birch.
BC: Hum, Well, all right. I think, I'm trying to think of it. Did you ever play the man in Gin Rummy?
LA: Never did.
BC: Okay. Apparently, the rule of thumb was (cuts off: 12:48)